Baking soda with gatorade powder

[nukdog]

I have a few races and erg tests coming up and I'm thinking of adding baking soda to the gatorade powder that I normally use. Any information on if this works and if it's safe? If so how much baking soda should I add, should I eat carbs with it and how long before my race should I drink it?

[Sakly]

What is the idea behind baking soda?
How long will the test/race pieces be?
I think up to a half marathon you don't need anything at all.

[alex9026]

What is the idea behind baking soda?
How long will the test/race pieces be?
I think up to a half marathon you don't need anything at all.

There is a ton of literature behind the benefits of it over short distances, I just wouldn't want to be a stranger over the internet advising a protocol just for him/her to have a bad time with it!

[jcross485]

Maurten came out with a sodium bicarb product so its use has picked up steam as of late as their gels are regarded as the best in the industry in the endurance community.

Personally, I think way too many recreational athletes are overconsuming carbohydrates around training because they see the pros doing it. The pros are after the last few percent in performance with a disregard of any potential long term health risks; slamming hundreds of grams (if not thousands on their big days) of simple sugars just is not healthy no matter how its spun.

My understanding is that it does have the potential to help in those shorter time domain events but it also runs a very high and real risk of causing gastro issues. The literature I have seen is that you're going to be looking to get upwards of .2g - .3g or pure sodium bicarb per kg of BW; for me, that would be anywhere from roughly 16g - 24g of pure sodium bicarb. With that comes a ton of, well you guessed it, sodium. We have pure baking soda in our pantry and based on the label, for me to get 16g of sodium bi-carb, I would be consuming 4200mg+ of sodium. I am a huge fan of electrolyte consumption but thats pushing triple what I would normally consume pre-training or pre-event and it doesn't come with any other electrolytes.

Everything I have seen is that you need to very carefully ramp up to this dosage over time to gauge tolerability. I don't have any kind of protocol to recommend with respect to ramping up as I have yet to try to incorporate it myself. I should also note that I am one who tends to have a bit of a particular stomach; I almost always train fasted in the mornings (7a - 8a or so) with just fluids and electrolytes in my stomach. When I have to push training to later (ie. 11a - noon or so), I'll stay fasted with a focus on fluids and electrolytes and just fit all of my actual food in after. In the rare event that I train late in the day (ie afternoon or evening), what I eat is something small from a volume standpoint and typically several hours (4-6) prior to starting any training.

[reuben]

Personally, I think way too many recreational athletes are overconsuming carbohydrates around training because they see the pros doing it. The pros are after the last few percent in performance with a disregard of any potential long term health risks; slamming hundreds of grams (if not thousands on their big days) of simple sugars just is not healthy no matter how its spun.

This. Professional endurance athletes such as marathon runners and road cyclists are atypical people doing abnormal things. They may consume huge quantities of sugars, etc., during races, but that doesn't mean that it's good for a normal person, and even the pros slowly train their bodies to properly digest those large quantities - they don't just start slamming huge numbers of grams one day.

[Sakly]

What is the idea behind baking soda?
How long will the test/race pieces be?
I think up to a half marathon you don't need anything at all.

There is a ton of literature behind the benefits of it over short distances, I just wouldn't want to be a stranger over the internet advising a protocol just for him/her to have a bad time with it!

Never heard about that before
But I'm also not consuming carbs to fuel for training. Probably I'm the wrong one to give advice on baking soda strategies and what to eat, as I don't follow the typical approach.

[H2O]

I would not do it. You can mess yourself up, even if only by getting diarrhea (but worse is possible).
There is an old thread, where some medical experts weighed in.
Coffee and beet root juice or beet root powder are safer alternatives. They do not help with lactate buffering but increase blood flow.

Funnily in my case lactate has never been the problem, just general systemic failure.
Maybe I did not push it had enough.

[alex9026]

In respect of a high carbohydrate diet in recreational diet, what ballpark g per kg of bodyweight do we consider to be high? For a recreational athlete, I probably eat more carbs than most (I don't have a data point, being presumptuous) with no ill side effects concerning my health. I have flirted with a higher fat/lower carb ratio but soon revert to type. I move better, I recover better, it's more satiating for me. Unless out of the blue there is a glaring health marker I can't see me changing.

As for baking soda, like any other supplement on the market, I'd want everything else in check first and it's a last resort to really push for a PB. And as jcross mentioned, definitely start on the lower end of the protocol if you are going to use it. And check it's 100% baking soda, as a lot are riddled with additives.

[nukdog]

Maurten came out with a sodium bicarb product so its use has picked up steam as of late as their gels are regarded as the best in the industry in the endurance community.

Personally, I think way too many recreational athletes are overconsuming carbohydrates around training because they see the pros doing it. The pros are after the last few percent in performance with a disregard of any potential long term health risks; slamming hundreds of grams (if not thousands on their big days) of simple sugars just is not healthy no matter how its spun.

My understanding is that it does have the potential to help in those shorter time domain events but it also runs a very high and real risk of causing gastro issues. The literature I have seen is that you're going to be looking to get upwards of .2g - .3g or pure sodium bicarb per kg of BW; for me, that would be anywhere from roughly 16g - 24g of pure sodium bicarb. With that comes a ton of, well you guessed it, sodium. We have pure baking soda in our pantry and based on the label, for me to get 16g of sodium bi-carb, I would be consuming 4200mg+ of sodium. I am a huge fan of electrolyte consumption but thats pushing triple what I would normally consume pre-training or pre-event and it doesn't come with any other electrolytes.

Everything I have seen is that you need to very carefully ramp up to this dosage over time to gauge tolerability. I don't have any kind of protocol to recommend with respect to ramping up as I have yet to try to incorporate it myself. I should also note that I am one who tends to have a bit of a particular stomach; I almost always train fasted in the mornings (7a - 8a or so) with just fluids and electrolytes in my stomach. When I have to push training to later (ie. 11a - noon or so), I'll stay fasted with a focus on fluids and electrolytes and just fit all of my actual food in after. In the rare event that I train late in the day (ie afternoon or evening), what I eat is something small from a volume standpoint and typically several hours (4-6) prior to starting any training.

Yeah I've found information about using bicarb soda and I'll probably start with 1g/kg of BW and increase over the coming weeks. I'm not going to use it for regular training, only for race days, hard pieces and erg tests to make sure I don't consume too much. And what are the consequences of consuming too many electrolytes?

[Dangerscouse]

In respect of a high carbohydrate diet in recreational diet, what ballpark g per kg of bodyweight do we consider to be high? For a recreational athlete, I probably eat more carbs than most (I don't have a data point, being presumptuous) with no ill side effects concerning my health. I have flirted with a higher fat/lower carb ratio but soon revert to type. I move better, I recover better, it's more satiating for me. Unless out of the blue there is a glaring health marker I can't see me changing.

I also eat a lot of carbs and don't have any idea of how much I consume. I've never controlled my diet and when I wasn't training it wasn't a good idea, but in recent years I've maintained a very steady size. I also hardly ever weigh myself.

I honestly think that if you feel like it's right then there's no reason to change it. I certainly won't be changing anything.

[jcross485]

Yeah I've found information about using bicarb soda and I'll probably start with 1g/kg of BW and increase over the coming weeks. I'm not going to use it for regular training, only for race days, hard pieces and erg tests to make sure I don't consume too much. And what are the consequences of consuming too many electrolytes?

I would not start at 1g per KG...it should be .1g per KG or less. Big difference.

With respect to electrolyte consumption, this is coming from someone who regularly gets 8g+ of sodium per day on top of the rest. I would say that taking a large bolus of one electrolyte only in a short period of time can potentially lead to gastric upset and stomach cramping among other things (sudden blood pressure changes leading to headaches, nausea, kidney stress, etc.) if you're not well adapted to it.

[Dangerscouse]

Personally, I think way too many recreational athletes are overconsuming carbohydrates around training because they see the pros doing it.

Very true, and you could replace overconsuming carbs with quite a lot of other alternatives and also be correct.

[jcross485]

Very true, and you could replace overconsuming carbs with quite a lot of other alternatives and also be correct.

Agreed! I think chasing that last few % in lieu of mastering the basics and training hard and consistently is inefficient. There's a quote I always circle back to if I feel like I'm getting off track myself - "don't major in the minors".

[Jbrown1215]

I've tested Maurten's bicarb system a couple times now over the last couple months, and while two data points certainly does not a trend make, I didn't experience any unwanted GI side effects (perhaps due to their "proprietary" gel that you consume the bicarb with), and both workouts resulted in PBs (2k & 6k).

I've not worked up the courage yet to try straight bicarb from the box, and may never, despite the vastly lower cost, but I would reserve the Maurten system for infrequent test/PB attempts at the shorter distances, and nothing else, given 1) the high extremely high levels of sodium ingested, as others have mentioned, and 2) the high cost per dose, coming in at around $18 USD per serving after tax and shipping. And I'd only recommend it to those who are already relatively highly trained and are looking to squeeze that extra 1% out of a test piece. Others would likely benefit more from getting a better night's sleep, eating better, or just a better training plan in general.

[alex9026]

And I'd only recommend it to those who are already relatively highly trained and are looking to squeeze that extra 1% out of a test piece. Others would likely benefit more from getting a better night's sleep, eating better, or just a better training plan in general.

While I agree on this point on the whole, I've come to the "whatever makes you happy" approach providing ones health isn't being put at risk (not going to spell this one out).

My running days were coming to an end just as carbon plated go faster cheat shoes were coming on to the market. Mid pack runners (I don't mean this in a derogatory manner at all) were rushing to stores to drop £200 on a pair of bleeding shoes, and placebo aside, it didn't make a bit of difference. Your sub 6:10 Justin is another man's sub 7 and if they feel a very expensive supplement is the ticket, then their mind is often made up (granted I don't know the OP's current and aspirational times).