Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[Nomark]

I may well be a seasonal erger - more as the daylight contracts, less as it increases. While that will obviously limit erging progress, I have no problem with varying my activities by season.

Nothing wrong with that, the whole point is to do what works for you whether that's working on faster times or just getting fitter or just keeping active when it's dark and cold! None of us are going to the Olympics!

I planned to do an easy bike ride today, before the temperature plummets again, then resting tomorrow before more exercise (erg is scheduled) but in the end that's not happening. I'm tired, and even a really easy bike ride just seems to be too much. Not even watching Omloop Het Nieuwsblad was enough to inspire me. But I started some more seeds for my vegetable garden, so I guess that's a win, eh?

You sound quite similar to me in attitude. I can give all this sensible advice but I also am a "doing less is giving up" type person and freely admit I probably go too fast and too hard on some sessions, but it works for me. That's why I said *if* you are getting discouraged think about changing because the most important thing in my opinion is to do whatever makes you want to come back tomorrow.

Now, having said that, your comment about your bike ride stands out to me. If you are too tired for what is presumably an enjoyable, relatively easy activity then it may be a sign of overtraining. Maybe just due to doing 4 days last week, but maybe it's been building over the past few months. I'd suggest keeping an eye on it. If it's a one time thing, stick to 3 times a week. If it feels more constant consider a week off to recharge

[Nomark]

Week 11.3 - 8k again. Pete suggested going 2-3 strokes slower per minute. I decided to drop to r20 which is probably more like 1-2 less. Mainly because I am struggling to rate up again, doing intervals at 26-28 and I didn't want to make things worse by working at r18.

The session went well with a negative split throughout. I definitely have to work on cardio as although I looked like I'd been swimming after, it felt a lot easier than higher ratings even with a higher pace. Unfortunately I think there's no quick fix for that so it's just a case of doing the metres until my CV system gets stronger. Pleased with the watts per stroke though. Managed a few at sub 2:00 r20 at the end.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M
35:56.9	8,000m	2:14.8	143	791	19
7:20.6	1,600m	2:17.6	134	761	20
7:16.8	3,200m	2:16.5	138	773	19
7:15.6	4,800m	2:16.1	139	777	20
7:14.4	6,400m	2:15.7	140	781	20
6:49.5	8,000m	2:07.9	167	874	20

I had almost exactly 1,400 to go at 30 minutes, so I guess I also did a 6,600m 30r20.

I think my favourite thing about the plan is it keeps pushing you faster and longer and then bringing you back so that paces and distances feel much easier. 8k is much more doable after 10k and a 1:55 2k is much more doable after a 1:45 500m.

[reuben]

Well, I didn't feel any better today, still tired legs, but I cranked out the 10k in a better, steadier fashion. There could be lots of reasons for that, but it's not worth hashing them out, so I'll just take today as better day and try to do the same next week.

Now, having said that, your comment about your bike ride stands out to me. If you are too tired for what is presumably an enjoyable, relatively easy activity then it may be a sign of overtraining. Maybe just due to doing 4 days last week, but maybe it's been building over the past few months. I'd suggest keeping an eye on it. If it's a one time thing, stick to 3 times a week. If it feels more constant consider a week off to recharge

It's a bike I built up recently, and I was just planning on an easy spin to see if I need to make any tweaks to it. The frame isn't really designed to go fast, and neither is the build I put on it. The frame/bike is made for commuting, running errands, and bikepacking (my intended application). Having said that, every bike goes fast downhill, even a fully loaded bikepacking rig.

[Joris]

1/3 - Week 18 Day 3 [30min]

After rowing four days in a row my body told me that it was probably time for a resting day. Especially my back felt a little stiff
Unfortunately, I had plenty of time to exercise on Saturday and wouldn't have any time the following day, so I decided to do the easiest session of the week anyway, and since it was mainly my upperbody that felt tired, I added another half-hour session on the cross-trainer afterwards.

With a 2:20 split, I stayed at the same pace as the week before and my heart rate stayed about the same as well. So a good in-between session.

3/3 - Week 18 Day 2 [4 x 2k]

I must admit that I was not looking forward to this interval session with the distance of a steady state session. The longest interval session also that appears in the BPP plan. The good news is that it won't get any longer than this.

Pete recommended doing the same pace as the previous 3 x 2k from four weeks ago.
Last time I achieved 2 x 2:08 + last rep at 2:05. So target for this session was 2:07.

The first three reps (at 2:07) went better than expected, allowing me to put another significant acceleration on the last rep, doing it at 2:02.23.
Against expectations therefore I achieved a new personal best, despite having the extra rep.
I guess sometimes the biggest jumps occur when you least expect them?

Anyway, all doubts are now gone to meet my target of under 2:00 for a single 2k at the end of the BBP. At least if nothing unexpected occurs.
Maybe I can set 1:56.5 as a new target now, which is the median pace of my target group according to the C2 ranking.
Nothing very spectacular, but also not nothing after “only” 24 weeks of training. And it would be a good starting point to further climb the ladder after the BPP plan.

[reuben]

Week 13.

I have to say, that after yesterday's 10k, today's 4x1k 3r seemed like... "What, is that all? We're done already?"

I guess I should have gone harder, at least on the last rep. I did maintain my 4x800m 2r from a month ago as Pete suggests, and it wasn't especially hard, although the extra minute of rest surely helped. Today my biggest problem was watching ergData to make sure that my pace didn't drop. When my mind wanders, my body relaxes, and I slow down, on both SS and interval sessions.

[Nomark]

Just a quick active recovery row today as I was still feeling yesterdays efforts a bit. 11.4 - 25 minutes, taken at an easy pace. Not sure if it has much value at my level versus just taking a day off but it's another 5k done so can't hurt. 1.5k intervals tomorrow - looking forward to them, just need to work out a realistic but challenging pace, or just heed the BPP instructions.
Passed 300k career metres

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M
25:00.0	5,099	2:27.2	110	681	21
5:00.0	1,035	2:24.9	115	695	21
10:00.0	1,063	2:21.1	125	728	22
15:00.0	1,033	2:25.2	114	693	22
20:00.0	966	2:35.3	93	501	20
25:00.0	1,002	2:25.2	114	693	22

[Nomark]

3/3 - Week 18 Day 2 [4 x 2k]

I must admit that I was not looking forward to this interval session with the distance of a steady state session. The longest interval session also that appears in the BPP plan. The good news is that it won't get any longer than this.

Pete recommended doing the same pace as the previous 3 x 2k from four weeks ago.
Last time I achieved 2 x 2:08 + last rep at 2:05. So target for this session was 2:07.

The first three reps (at 2:07) went better than expected, allowing me to put another significant acceleration on the last rep, doing it at 2:02.23.
Against expectations therefore I achieved a new personal best, despite having the extra rep.
I guess sometimes the biggest jumps occur when you least expect them?

Anyway, all doubts are now gone to meet my target of under 2:00 for a single 2k at the end of the BBP. At least if nothing unexpected occurs.
Maybe I can set 1:56.5 as a new target now, which is the median pace of my target group according to the C2 ranking.
Nothing very spectacular, but also not nothing after “only” 24 weeks of training. And it would be a good starting point to further climb the ladder after the BPP plan.

Oof, that is a tough interval and maybe why the initial 2k intervals feel so slow. 3 times was bad enough! Great result, definitely on course for sub-2:00 and beyond!

Week 13.

I have to say, that after yesterday's 10k, today's 4x1k 3r seemed like... "What, is that all? We're done already?"

I guess I should have gone harder, at least on the last rep. I did maintain my 4x800m 2r from a month ago as Pete suggests, and it wasn't especially hard, although the extra minute of rest surely helped. Today my biggest problem was watching ergData to make sure that my pace didn't drop. When my mind wanders, my body relaxes, and I slow down, on both SS and interval sessions.

Speaking from experience, it's better to feel like you could have gone faster, than know you should have gone slower! lol
It's funny how some pieces just click and fly by compared to others, sounds like a very enjoyable session, well done.

[PleaseLockIn]

Just a quick active recovery row today as I was still feeling yesterdays efforts a bit. 11.4 - 25 minutes, taken at an easy pace. Not sure if it has much value at my level versus just taking a day off but it's another 5k done so can't hurt. 1.5k intervals tomorrow - looking forward to them, just need to work out a realistic but challenging pace, or just heed the BPP instructions.
Passed 300k career metres

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M
25:00.0	5,099	2:27.2	110	681	21
5:00.0	1,035	2:24.9	115	695	21
10:00.0	1,063	2:21.1	125	728	22
15:00.0	1,033	2:25.2	114	693	22
20:00.0	966	2:35.3	93	501	20
25:00.0	1,002	2:25.2	114	693	22

It could still have decent value, especially if it is UT2.

I tried the Week 7 row but ended up bailing because my glutes still somewhat hurt. The higher temperature does not help things. I tried to hold 2:27 but slowed to 2:29-2:30 to keep my HR down and so it wouldn't affect that much recovery. Today I was quite fatigued anyways.

Maybe I should reduce my SS stroke rate to 18/19 instead. I could still pass a conversation test of 30+ words entirely comfortably at 155-156bpm... so it seems having a HR cap of 160 reflects reality.

https://log.concept2.com/profile/2501432/log/98977959

Since I am doing a near-max test and then intervals, along with 2x weight training, I will keep a hard cap of HR 160. Seems 2:26-2:27 is too fast for me. Maybe next time I will try 2:29-2:30 at r18. I will use time instead of distance to keep myself consistent (concept 2 option).

I got a week off for this, then after I need to finish PE basketball anyways. I guess I can use this week to acclimatize to the increased workload. (But i actually don't have that much time)

Somehow, I have the slowest steady state times of everyone here, perhaps even at dmuskett level, and yet my intervals are as good or nearly as good as Nomark's (fastest here, or maybe tied with me). But it's fine—my r20 is strength limited not CV limited so I need to improve my strength to get a 1:59 30r20 by Sep.

[alex9026]

Somehow, I have the slowest steady state times of everyone here, perhaps even at dmuskett level, and yet my intervals are as good or nearly as good as Nomark's (fastest here, or maybe tied with me). But it's fine—my r20 is strength limited not CV limited so I need to improve my strength to get a 1:59 30r20 by Sep.

I'm sure it's not your intention to belittle others but to me that's how this comes across. Once more, I'd suggest quit comparing yourself to others, they have their battles/strengths/weaknesses and you have yours. Plenty of people have taken the time to offer you advice on a thread you created, yet you have given nothing back?

[DJ1972]

Week 13.1: 10000m – Again, try to improve on your average pace from the 10000m row last week. To ensure you are never in danger of not completing a session, set out at the same pace you achieved last time for the first three quarters or so of the row, and only then begin to speed up gradually.

I added a 6th session in Week 12 - a 10 000 m split in 2 intervals as advised to maintain HR within (more or less) UT2. I decided 6000/4000 as HR ramps up from lower level for the 1st interval and it was spot on for my 'case', even whilst lowering the pace from my usual 2:20 to 2:16.

Repeated the same yesterday for W13.1. I believe this may be key to developing more Watts in the long term. I feel that I can sustain more distance and efforts from now on. Hence I have chosen this option for long intervals, setting long term goals for a post BPP training . Without the Watts, I will never reach my 2k target (7:20).

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
45:18.3	10,000	2:15.9	139	779	20	144
27:10.7	6,000	2:15.8	139	780	20	143
r: 2:00	14						
18:07.6	4,000	2:15.9	139	779	21	145
r14					

[Nomark]

Week 11.5 or 12.2 (haven't decided whether to repeat this effort or not!) - 4x1500m, r3

A decent time but an awful session. And I just realised I misread my logbook so aimed for the wrong target too, so not even as good a time as I thought. Anyway I thought I did 2:03.5 on this last time so aimed for 2:03. Turns out I averaged 2:02.7 last time! Dropped my average time to 2:02.3 but that seems like it's just noise.

I still felt a bit of heaviness in my legs. It didn't help starting before 7 and before coffee or breakfast and I couldn't get the pacing right. I've been working on my stroke power lately, but for some reason felt like as this was an interval I should do it at r27-28. But that meant much lower power strokes targeting 2:03. So I ended up with a weird compromise at about 24-25, some higher power some lower and times a little bit up and down. On the positive side it's 6,000m at a decent lick and I finished with a sub 2:00. But it was just one of those sessions that felt hard after the first 100m and never really clicked into gear.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M
24:28.0	6,000	2:02.3	191	957	25
6:09.2	1,500	2:03.0	188	946	26
6:09.5	1,500	2:03.1	187	944	25
6:09.3	1,500	2:03.1	188	945	25
5:59.9	1,500	1:59.9	203	997	27
r70				

Maybe I will give it another go next week. I don't want to, but that's all the more reason to do it. To paraphrase JFK, we do some intervals not because they are easy, but because they are hard

[p_b82]

I tried the Week 7 row but ended up bailing because my glutes still somewhat hurt. The higher temperature does not help things. I tried to hold 2:27 but slowed to 2:29-2:30 to keep my HR down and so it wouldn't affect that much recovery. Today I was quite fatigued anyways.

Maybe I should reduce my SS stroke rate to 18/19 instead. I could still pass a conversation test of 30+ words entirely comfortably at 155-156bpm... so it seems having a HR cap of 160 reflects reality.

https://log.concept2.com/profile/2501432/log/98977959

Since I am doing a near-max test and then intervals, along with 2x weight training, I will keep a hard cap of HR 160. Seems 2:26-2:27 is too fast for me. Maybe next time I will try 2:29-2:30 at r18. I will use time instead of distance to keep myself consistent (concept 2 option).

I got a week off for this, then after I need to finish PE basketball anyways. I guess I can use this week to acclimatize to the increased workload. (But i actually don't have that much time)

Somehow, I have the slowest steady state times of everyone here, perhaps even at dmuskett level, and yet my intervals are as good or nearly as good as Nomark's (fastest here, or maybe tied with me). But it's fine—my r20 is strength limited not CV limited so I need to improve my strength to get a 1:59 30r20 by Sep.

I'm with Alex here - your tone is really disparaging towards others.

I'd also be very careful about treating what people suggest as being gospel - we *think* you're technique and strength limited - but we don't *know* as we've never seen you row.

Strength on it's own will not fix your problems - you *have* to have the engine underneath to support it as well.
- Ever watched any strongman? Biggest men in the world in terms of raw power yet make them sprint 20 meters and they're often huffing and puffing before they pick up the heavy stuff... Extreme example but the point's valid.

[p_b82]

Week 11.5 or 12.2 (haven't decided whether to repeat this effort or not!) - 4x1500m, r3

A decent time but an awful session. And I just realised I misread my logbook so aimed for the wrong target too, so not even as good a time as I thought. Anyway I thought I did 2:03.5 on this last time so aimed for 2:03. Turns out I averaged 2:02.7 last time! Dropped my average time to 2:02.3 but that seems like it's just noise.

I still felt a bit of heaviness in my legs. It didn't help starting before 7 and before coffee or breakfast and I couldn't get the pacing right. I've been working on my stroke power lately, but for some reason felt like as this was an interval I should do it at r27-28. But that meant much lower power strokes targeting 2:03. So I ended up with a weird compromise at about 24-25, some higher power some lower and times a little bit up and down. On the positive side it's 6,000m at a decent lick and I finished with a sub 2:00. But it was just one of those sessions that felt hard after the first 100m and never really clicked into gear.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M
24:28.0	6,000	2:02.3	191	957	25
6:09.2	1,500	2:03.0	188	946	26
6:09.5	1,500	2:03.1	187	944	25
6:09.3	1,500	2:03.1	188	945	25
5:59.9	1,500	1:59.9	203	997	27
r70				

Maybe I will give it another go next week. I don't want to, but that's all the more reason to do it. To paraphrase JFK, we do some intervals not because they are easy, but because they are hard

Some days are just bad days and they start that way from the first push - so well done for getting through it - as you say 6k is still 6k!

Re your stroke rate - I'd just take it as part of the development, you're now building a stronger stroke more naturally, so you're more efficient with it, once your CV side catches up you can make use of that at higher rates - my last 2k I only averaged r26; but I did my 5k at r28

[Joris]

Week 13.

I have to say, that after yesterday's 10k, today's 4x1k 3r seemed like... "What, is that all? We're done already?"

I guess I should have gone harder, at least on the last rep. I did maintain my 4x800m 2r from a month ago as Pete suggests, and it wasn't especially hard, although the extra minute of rest surely helped. Today my biggest problem was watching ergData to make sure that my pace didn't drop. When my mind wanders, my body relaxes, and I slow down, on both SS and interval sessions.

Personally, I think the pace Pete prescribes on interval sessions is often too slow, especially during the first few weeks of the plan or if you still have a lot of newbie gains for the taking.
On the other hand, at times Pete's suggestions were a bit too fast for me, so in the end it might even out.
Anyways, what I do is to try to set my targets mostly based on my own knowledge. The more interval sessions you have done, the better you learn to estimate what target you can aim for. And of course, if you do a session that ends up to be a bit too slow, that's no drama neither.
And if desired, you can always speed up as the reps progress. In any case, it's more satisfying doing negative splitting than starting too fast and then having to slow down or to give up.

Week 11.5 or 12.2 (haven't decided whether to repeat this effort or not!) - 4x1500m, r3

A decent time but an awful session. And I just realised I misread my logbook so aimed for the wrong target too, so not even as good a time as I thought. Anyway I thought I did 2:03.5 on this last time so aimed for 2:03. Turns out I averaged 2:02.7 last time! Dropped my average time to 2:02.3 but that seems like it's just noise.

I still felt a bit of heaviness in my legs. It didn't help starting before 7 and before coffee or breakfast and I couldn't get the pacing right.

Maybe I will give it another go next week. I don't want to, but that's all the more reason to do it. To paraphrase JFK, we do some intervals not because they are easy, but because they are hard

If your legs continue to feel heavy or if you feel like you're stagnating during your interval sessions, maybe you should rest a bit more or do your steady states at a slower pace. But after just one lesser session, it seems a bit premature to draw conclusions already.
And considering you did the session in suboptimal conditions (before 7 and before coffee and breakfast) you might also consider it as a good performance? In any case, I would never consider an interval session on an empty stomach!

[Nomark]

If your legs continue to feel heavy or if you feel like you're stagnating during your interval sessions, maybe you should rest a bit more or do your steady states at a slower pace. But after just one lesser session, it seems a bit premature to draw conclusions already.
And considering you did the session in suboptimal conditions (before 7 and before coffee and breakfast) you might also consider it as a good performance? In any case, I would never consider an interval session on an empty stomach!

Yes it did occur to me that I might fall into the trap of doing my SS too fast and my intervals too slow - I'll keep an eye on it. I'm also wondering if my holiday which involved lots of walking may have helped my base fitness, but obviously I didn't do any sprints, so I lost a little bit on the interval fitness. Because I feel great on the faster steady states but can't seem to improve my 1500 and 2k splits by much at all. My shorter 500 intervals however seemed to improve as I'd expect. I don't even know if that's a thing or if I'm making up excuses because my times aren't improving as much as I'd like. I've probably just hit a wall as my strength and cardio abilities find a new equilibrium and they'll come down next round. Anyway I always like to focus on the positive that I got through it and my times did come down. Let's see what happens with the repeat in a few days (after breakfast! )