Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[Nomark]

Pete reckoned that for each 1 week without rowing he added 1S/500m onto splits on the return. Obviously the amount depends on any cross training and how aggressive he targets are. It seems consensus that it takes approx. 2 weeks to regain the fitness lost for each week of inactivity, although I suspect that the recovery may be slower for those at the peak of fitness than those currently making rapid gains.

Not exactly what I wanted to read sipping my beer on the beach, but there's more to life I guess. See you all in a couple of weeks (after which it will take me 4 weeks to get up to speed again)

[PleaseLockIn]

Week 3 Day 2. 2*2000m 4R

Instead of following Pete’s pacing plans (this is supposed to be hard day), my goal was 2:09 split r24.

Warm up at steady state pace, got to 160bpm

8:36.0 r24 and 8:31.5 r24. Turns out my pacing target was conservative (max HR seen only 195) but it’s fine.

Onwards to day 3! I’ll stick to 2:28 and check my HR afterwards (keep to UT2 or at most zone 3)

After that - 20 minutes, 2:05 at r20. TT to test myself.

[Joris]

Week 15 - Day 3 [3 x 10min / 2min rest] - " Very similar to the 4 x 8min last week. Aim for the same pace you achieved then for the first 2 reps, and then faster on the final rep."

I felt a little sick Monday and also not fully fit yesterday, but I still wanted to do a session after three days without rowing, so I decided to drop the optional interval session from week 14 Day 5 [8 x 500m)] and start with Week 15, picking out the easiest session.

As Pete described, I aimed for the same pace as the 4 x 8min last week (2:18 splits), but I didn't try to fasten up on the final rep.
The session turned out relatively well. I felt I was a little less fit than usual, and my average heart rate confirmed that with several beats higher than normal. But all in all still glad I did the session. Tonight hopefully another session.

[DJ1972]

Pete reckoned that for each 1 week without rowing he added 1S/500m onto splits on the return. Obviously the amount depends on any cross training and how aggressive he targets are. It seems consensus that it takes approx. 2 weeks to regain the fitness lost for each week of inactivity, although I suspect that the recovery may be slower for those at the peak of fitness than those currently making rapid gains.

Not exactly what I wanted to read sipping my beer on the beach, but there's more to life I guess. See you all in a couple of weeks (after which it will take me 4 weeks to get up to speed again)

This is exactly what I went through. 2 weeks off at the end of January due to travelling. No Concept2 around. I restarted where I left it and I am repeating Week 9
- 9000m, HR was off too much in Zone 4, but not feeling exhausted and no muscle aches
- 4x800 m - target 1:57 as I had done before. Mixed results this time, my muscles could not inject the necessary Watts to reach the target. Cardio was sustainable though.

12:33.4 3,200m 1:57.7 215 1038 28 166
3:07.9 800m 1:57.4 216 1043 27 159
r: 3:00 18m
3:08.8 800m 1:58.0 213 1033 28 165
r: 3:00 18m
3:09.3 800m 1:58.3 211 1027 29 170
r: 3:00 17m
3:07.5 800m 1:57.1 217 1048 29 173
r53m

I normally have no interruption for enough weeks to complete the BPP (I have started it end Sept 25). This is a down for me but, at least I have completed 630k since I started with the Concept2.

[PleaseLockIn]

Week 3 Day 3 - 6000m

Kept it at a cap of 166 bpm. Almost all of it was quite easy (about top UT2), with the end dipping a bit borderline. My max HR is ~208 from my last 2k TT, though I could do at least a 20-minute TT at a 2:05 pace or more to test. If I feel good, I could make it a 5000m r20 and hope to beat 20:50.

https://log.concept2.com/profile/2501432/log/97866449 at least i got a bit more consistent. I will hold the pace at 2:27.x to 2:28 for these steady state rows for now until my HR drops somewhat below low 160s.

While my steady state pace is nothing impressive, at least it is a true steady state pace with almost no drift. Some people here do these long rows with HR drift as if they were moderate battle paddles. And at least I have enough recovery for other mental/physical activities.

[dmuskett]

Got a bug last week, which led to coughing throwing out my back. Getting old is the worst!

Got back on the rower today to try a relaxing 5k row. The back was ... mostly okay, but I could really feel that I was overly compensating with the arms. Ended up bailing after 1300 meters, I'm going to shoot for some 3x1k or something tomorrow in order to just work on form. As soon as the body is willing and able I'll jump back on the plan, hopefully by Sunday.

[Joris]

* Week 15 Day 2 [5 x 750m / 2min rest]:
I targeted 1:59, which was the same pace as during my week 12 [4 x 800m] session.
Not very ambitious, but since my body doesn't feel completely recovered yet, I was happy to maintain this speed over a slightly longer total distance.
And I managed to speed up a little bit during the last rep (1:57).

* Week 15 Day 4 [8k]
After yesterdays session I did this session today during lunchtime.
Last weeks I managed to diminish my split time on these 8k sessions from 2:28 till 2:25 without an increase in heart rate, so I decided to aim for another second faster (2:24). I achieved it, but my average heart rate increased form about 137 to 141, and I also physically felt a big difference with my shoulder also hurting a bit after the session. I may have to stop ramping up the speed for steady state sessions for a while until my body is recovered and acclimated to these new paces. Or maybe I just did this session a little too quickly after last night's interval session. Let's see how my body feels tomorrow...

I will hold the pace at 2:27.x to 2:28 for these steady state rows for now until my HR drops somewhat below low 160s.

While my steady state pace is nothing impressive, at least it is a true steady state pace with almost no drift. Some people here do these long rows with HR drift as if they were moderate battle paddles. And at least I have enough recovery for other mental/physical activities.

You don't have to justify your “slow” speed compared to others, and certainly not for steady state sessions, since the goal of these sessions is not to go as fast as possible, but rather to build a good base. You probably know your own body best to gauge how fast you can go without going too deep. And a heart rate monitor can certainly be a useful tool to help you with that.

Personally, I did my steady state rows until week 11 at 2:30 splits (the first two weeks even at 2:34).
Despite this 'slow' pace, I notice that my condition has systematically improved, and since a few weeks I can gradually build up the pace for my steady state sessions (meanwhile till 2:27 for 10k and 2:25 for 8k), without my average heart rate being higher than before or starting to drift. On the contrary, where my heart rate showed a constantly rising curve the first few weeks, it now stays fairly flat over a session.

Got a bug last week, which led to coughing throwing out my back. Getting old is the worst!

As soon as the body is willing and able I'll jump back on the plan, hopefully by Sunday.

We're in the same boat.
For now, I am trying to stick to the plan. If that means I have to do some slower sessions, so be it.
Good luck with the recovery!

[Joris]

This topic seems to have stalled a bit lately, but I suppose I'll just keep posting, if only to track my own progression.
Hopefully some other members will jump back on the wagon soon.

Week 15 - Day 1 [10k]:
Decreased my split time by another second, down to 2:26, and average heart rate stayed the same again.
Even though the total distance will start increasing again in week 16 (up till 10.5k), I think I will continue to increase the pace by another second.

Week 16 - Day 2 [5 x 1.5k] "Look back to week 13 and the 3 x 2000m session. Aim for the same pace as you achieved then."

Back in week 13 Pete suggested for the 3 x 2k session to aim for the same pace as the previous 4 x 1.5k session, which was 2:06.
But I decided to only aim for 2:08, given the suggested target sounded too ambitious to me back than.

This time by contrast, the suggested pace, in case I would have followed Pete's previous advice, sounded more realistic.
So I kind of tried to catch up on where I lowered the ambition last time.
And it worked out pretty well, since I managed to achieve the suggested 2:06, with a final rep at 2:04.
So compared to four weeks ago, I could hold the same pace, but for 5 reps of 1.5k instead of 4. Given the huge newbie gains seem to be over by now, I'm happy with the result.

Ps: these are becoming long distances for interval sessions.

[PleaseLockIn]

2:26.9 average, avg HR 157, max 164. https://log.concept2.com/profile/2501432/log/98076553 raised SS stroke rate to r20. I will keep the average for a couple weeks and wait for the HR to come down.

I am changing my training plan (3x BPP, 2x basketball for PE, 2x strength training in gym, 1x TT/very hard distance/depends day).

The issue is as the weather is getting warmer I may need to train inside, which would further exacerbate the HR drift. I ended at low 160s and started at mid 150s. It's manageable for short pieces, but for long pieces it might get worse. Hopefully my fitness improves to drop the HR.

[Dangerscouse]

The issue is as the weather is getting warmer I may need to train inside, which would further exacerbate the HR drift. I ended at low 160s and started at mid 150s. It's manageable for short pieces, but for long pieces it might get worse. Hopefully my fitness improves to drop the HR.

Don't fixate on HR so much. It's a useful metric, but it's not a defined target. I assume you're looking at others HR and trying to emulate them? HR doesn't work like that, and I've seen exceptionally good rowers with similar 2k times. One had a HR of just over 200 and the other topped out at about 170.

Think of it as a general trend as there's so many factors that can affect it, and also keep your eyes solely on your trends and ranges, not anyone else's. I would also be looking at how quickly you recover as a better way of confirming fitness. How much it drops in one minute is really helpful, but it's relative to the effort too, so it's more helpful for harder sessions.

[reuben]

This topic seems to have stalled a bit lately, but I suppose I'll just keep posting, if only to track my own progression.
Hopefully some other members will jump back on the wagon soon.

I can contribute a bit.

I stumbled into the BPP a few weeks ago. I knew of it as well as the full PP, WP, WOD, and others, but since I'm not a dedicated rower, even the BPP seemed to be more than I would want. For me, rowing is just one piece of a fitness/wellness puzzle.

But then one day the light bulb came on in my dim brain and I realized that the three base days per week would probably fit in well. I started at about week 3 or 4, because the SS rows in those weeks there were about the ~6k SS rows that I was already doing. I'm now on week 10 (9.5k SS).

My SS rows are now at a 3-4 seconds faster pace than when I started tracking them (newbie gains), but maybe starting to slow by a second or so as the distance increases, SPM 19-20. I don't in any way, shape, or form look forward to these longer SS rows, which are actually rather puny in the larger picture. My typical interval pace is about 7-9 seconds faster than my SS, SPM 23-26.

With intervals I sometimes find that I can do more than I thought, or have more left at the end. Part of this is probably because I didn't start at the beginning, so when Pete says to look at a previous week and go at the same pace or 1-2 seconds faster or slower, I haven't actually done that interval session, so I just kinda guess and go. I'm finally starting to get to the point where I've done some of the earlier intervals he references and can use them as baselines. Or if I know that I've been able to row faster recently, I just pick a pace and go for it.

4 weeks ago I did the 3x2k 4r. Two weeks ago I did the 4x1.5k 3r at 4s faster pace than the 3x2k. Tomorrow I'll do the 4x2k 3r again per the BPP. Pete suggests trying for 1s faster than the 3x2k, but I'll probably shoot for the 4s faster pace, as I'm pretty sure it's doable. We'll see what happens in the last 1k of the last rep. (where's the praying hands emoji?)

My technique needs work, as the force curve shows (newbie flaws). I tend to have a hitch in the curve around where the hips or arms come into play. I can feel it in my stroke, and I'm pretty sure that it's my arms coming in a bit too late. I also pretty sure that I'm not getting enough out of my legs.

Regardless of whether I finish or abandon the BPP, I want to do a bunch of shorter SS rows again and just try to drill the technique into my brain and body, which is what I was doing before I started the BPP. The deterioration in my stroke is especially noticeable in the latter stages of longer SS rows, so fatigue is a factor. I'm not sure if it's muscular or cardiovascular, but my suspicion is cardio. I don't have a fatigue problem with intervals, although I probably should.

I also need to get more comfortable with higher stroke rates for intervals, but that's a different story.

[iain]

Joris, nice progress.

PLI, Are you sure your rowing Max HR is 208? If so, the 5k was definitely doable. It is normal to find pace dropping a bit on R20 as our muscles tire. In an unrestricted TT I usually increase rating to compensate, but there is no option when restricting it. It is amazing what you can achieve over final 500 or so, so at 4k you should have pushed on knowing that the end is in sight.

Reuben, great to see the progress. Some people find splitting SS into 20', 5k or 6k intervals with say 2' rest helps. Better to take a short rest than allow the stroke to deteriorate. Re raising rating, this is what the short intervals are for. R23-6 is fine for 1.5 - 2k intervals for the time being and trying to raise it for these endurance intervals in what are long sessions relative to what you are used to is asking for HD, while particularly 500s can be done at much higher ratings (for me possibly 10S/min faster with full 3:30 PP rests). They are CV heavy so you need the rest, but do make faster ratings on longer intervals more manageable (initially increasing for 750s and 1k by lower amounts, then when sy R28 is sustainable for 1ks, think about upping for longer intervals).

[Joris]

This topic seems to have stalled a bit lately, but I suppose I'll just keep posting, if only to track my own progression.
Hopefully some other members will jump back on the wagon soon.

I can contribute a bit.

Welcome to the BBP plan and to this topic!

I don't in any way, shape, or form look forward to these longer SS rows, which are actually rather puny in the larger picture. My typical interval pace is about 7-9 seconds faster than my SS, SPM 23-26.

Why do you find the longer SS rows rather puny? Is it a matter of taste or do you not believe in the benefit of them?

From what Pete says: "Endurance training is really where you make the big gains in fitness, and should always be the backbone of any training plan. Without the basic fitness, no amount of power or strength is going to help."

But also: "The only guideline for pacing the steady distance sessions is that they should be within the bounds of 22 to 25spm, and at such a pace as you recover sufficiently for the hard session the following day. If in doubt, go slower! These sessions should be at least 10 seconds slower pace than your endurance interval sessions."

-> If your SS sessions are "only" 7-9 seconds slower than your interval sessions, than maybe you are doing them a bit too fast?
That could be at the expense of your technique, ... and at the expense of your appetite to do such longer distances?
In fact, I have the impression that a lot of beginners even have a much larger gap than 10 seconds. At least that is the case with me.

With intervals I sometimes find that I can do more than I thought, or have more left at the end. Part of this is probably because I didn't start at the beginning, so when Pete says to look at a previous week and go at the same pace or 1-2 seconds faster or slower, I haven't actually done that interval session, so I just kinda guess and go. I'm finally starting to get to the point where I've done some of the earlier intervals he references and can use them as baselines. Or if I know that I've been able to row faster recently, I just pick a pace and go for it.

If you were to go back a few tabs in this topic you would discover that many of us (including myself) work this way. Some trial and error at first, but once you know your pace for each distance you can make a relatively good estimate of what is realistic for you, regardless of Pete's advice.
If in doubt, better go a bit too slow and give it all during the last rep?

4 weeks ago I did the 3x2k 4r. Two weeks ago I did the 4x1.5k 3r at 4s faster pace than the 3x2k. Tomorrow I'll do the 4x2k 3r again per the BPP. Pete suggests trying for 1s faster than the 3x2k, but I'll probably shoot for the 4s faster pace, as I'm pretty sure it's doable. We'll see what happens in the last 1k of the last rep. (where's the praying hands emoji?)

Good luck and definitely try if you think it is feasible. But be aware that 3 x 2k is harder than 4 x 1,5k, even though the total distance is the same.

Regardless of whether I finish or abandon the BPP, I want to do a bunch of shorter SS rows again and just try to drill the technique into my brain and body, which is what I was doing before I started the BPP. The deterioration in my stroke is especially noticeable in the latter stages of longer SS rows, so fatigue is a factor.

For steady state rows I think it's important that you don't (or barely) get into the fatigue zone.
Not only to avoid poor technique, but also to recover sufficiently for your interval sessions.
If you get fatigued in longer ss sessions, maybe the problem is not the too long distance but rather that you are going a little too fast?

Ps: take all my advice with a grain of salt, since I'm still a beginner myself. I am only trying to share my experiences and the theory I have read.

[DJ1972]

Week 10.2
3 x 2000m / 4min rest – Look back to week 6 when you last did this session, with a similar session in week 8. Go for a pace 1 second faster than you did in week 6, and faster still for the last rep if you can.

Unexpected results. Week 6 was paced at 2:09. So I aimed for 2:08 without believing I could even do them at this pace. I had 2 weeks off training at the end of January and just repeated Week 9. Interval 1 and 2, all went well.
Last interval, I was aiming at 2:05 and I started with 2:00 (I don't know why!). I said to myself, let's hold up to 1000m and I can drop to 2:10 and average the interval as targeted. Surprisingly, I held the pace and oxygen coming in until the last 270 m.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
25:02.2 6,000m 2:05.1 178 914 26 166
8:32.0 2,000m 2:08.0 167 874 24 158
r: 4:00 17m
8:31.9 2,000m 2:07.9 167 874 25 165
r: 4:00 14m
7:58.2 2,000m 1:59.5 205 1004 30 177
r31m

Few lessons
- newbie's gain are still out there
- max HR topped 180 from 176 - so all my previous measurements were erroneous.
- SR increase allowed to maintain pace. I could maintain 30-32 SR, which I never did before

Few questions too:
- how did I not explode before when my HR was so high for so long?
- can I make more gain by injecting more watts instead of a higher SR
- 7:20 is my target for 2025, is it still possible?

[reuben]

Why do you find the longer SS rows rather puny? Is it a matter of taste or do you not believe in the benefit of them?

Puny compared to what others row.

From what Pete says: "Endurance training is really where you make the big gains in fitness, and should always be the backbone of any training plan. Without the basic fitness, no amount of power or strength is going to help."

I certainly agree that the longer SS sessions are the backbone.

But also: "The only guideline for pacing the steady distance sessions is that they should be within the bounds of 22 to 25spm, and at such a pace as you recover sufficiently for the hard session the following day. If in doubt, go slower! These sessions should be at least 10 seconds slower pace than your endurance interval sessions."

Hmmm... I thought they were supposed to be 18-22spm, preferably 18-20.

BPP, Week 7:

Look back in your training log to see the average stroke rate you’ve been doing for these sessions so far. If it’s 24 or under, that’s great, but if it’s over 24, try to focus during this session on making every drive count, and being relaxed and slower on the recoveries.

-> If your SS sessions are "only" 7-9 seconds slower than your interval sessions, than maybe you are doing them a bit too fast?
That could be at the expense of your technique, ... and at the expense of your appetite to do such longer distances?
In fact, I have the impression that a lot of beginners even have a much larger gap than 10 seconds. At least that is the case with me.

Maybe. Hard to say. I was able to hold the 7-9s slower pace up to about 8-9k without too much difficulty, but now I'm having trouble, and dropping the pace down a bit. I plan to do next week's 10k slower for sure.

For steady state rows I think it's important that you don't (or barely) get into the fatigue zone.
Not only to avoid poor technique, but also to recover sufficiently for your interval sessions.
If you get fatigued in longer ss sessions, maybe the problem is not the too long distance but rather that you are going a little too fast?

It's definitely possible. As noted above, I'm going to drop the pace a bit next week. I also don't think that it's feasible to keep the same pace at 10k as at 5k (unless the 5k is unduly slow). I didn't run a marathon at my 10 mile or 10k km pace, either.