help wanted with WP L2 math

[Olde School]

Hello, everyone.

I've done a pretty good search and am not finding a conclusive answer to this question:

My current 2K time was 7:38, yielding a 1:54 split.
For my next L2 workout I don't know whether to use 90% of the watts of the 2K split (233.8W) (this yields a 1:59 split or 210W), or to multiply the time of the 2K split by 1.08 (this yields a 2:04 split).
The difference in the 2 possible L2 paces is significant.

So, do I go by watts or pace?

Thanks

[Citroen]

Use pace for everything. Most folks on here use that, it's easier to read from the PM2, PM3, PM4 or PM5 than watts.

You program in a distance then measure the pace & time to complete it.

[jamesg]

For my next L2 workout

The basic rule of rowing is go as fast as possible, at the set rating.

Using PM numbers and ergdata, we can know not only what we're doing, but also how, avoiding the non-linearity of Speed - Power (W=kV³). This using stroke quality control via W/kg and W/Rating.

[iain]

Hello, everyone.

I've done a pretty good search and am not finding a conclusive answer to this question:

My current 2K time was 7:38, yielding a 1:54 split.
For my next L2 workout I don't know whether to use 90% of the watts of the 2K split (233.8W) (this yields a 1:59 split or 210W), or to multiply the time of the 2K split by 1.08 (this yields a 2:04 split).
The difference in the 2 possible L2 paces is significant.

So, do I go by watts or pace?

Thanks

While the more data oriented (myself included) don't like it, there is no set relationship between distances that applies to all or even to any person through different fitness levels. Any of the guides is just that and a coach will look at performance on several metrics as well as the timing of a session relative to goals / whether intended over reach week or easier week etc. to set the appropriate pace. Also I am currently unclear on whether doing L2s close to maximum is optimal as the intention is to get used to rowing around and a bit above threshold and that last push takes you well above threshold (so encroaching on L1 territory). As I get older 2 full on sessions take their toll and cannot be done week in week out, so if targetting 2k you need to prioritise L1 and L2 can be at 95% max.

I would expect max to be close to 5k pace. So for a "sprinter" this would be 2:04 and for an endurance specialist 1:58. So what fits with you and what are you trying to achieve with the session?

[MPx]

Hello, everyone.

I've done a pretty good search and am not finding a conclusive answer to this question:

My current 2K time was 7:38, yielding a 1:54 split.
For my next L2 workout I don't know whether to use 90% of the watts of the 2K split (233.8W) (this yields a 1:59 split or 210W), or to multiply the time of the 2K split by 1.08 (this yields a 2:04 split).
The difference in the 2 possible L2 paces is significant.

So, do I go by watts or pace?

Thanks

As pointed out above the difference is due to the Cube relationship between Watts and Pace. So you need to understand (perhaps from the context of the guidance) weather the % is meant to apply to Watts or Pace - I'm guessing pace.

[Dangerscouse]

What's an L2 workout, and more importantly how long in distance or time is it? Is it intervals or a single piece?

[MPx]

What's an L2 workout...

At the risk of ire from Mike C for getting it all wrong, I offer this Stu:

I observe people, who I know follow the plan, doing
L1 sessions which tend to be full on short interval repeats - only scheduled on the run up to competition phase not in general training
L2 also a hard session but longer intervals - in all phases.
L3 longer again (12k) but lower threshold training - appears to be written as steady state, but looks grey zone to me.
L4 plays with rate quite a bit but is otherwise closest to what I call steady state

Despite these differences, all levels look challenging to me with pace guidance based on targeted 2k time. Results can't be argued with however - not only the successful teams they were designed for but also independent followers winning competitions and setting records.

Edit to answer your Q directly ...three L2s I know are:
5x1.5k, rest isn't really rest its 1.5k light rowing
4x2k, 1.5k r
3k/2.5k/2k, 1.5k/2k/1.5k r

[H2O]

Similar age here (66). 4 x 2K rest 4 mins, pace 2K+8 is not unpleasant and is in the middle of the AT band, pace 2K+5 is in low end TR territory and would be very hard. if the 1.5K is recovery pace (like 2:20) you could shoot for a 2:01 split.

[Dangerscouse]

What's an L2 workout...

At the risk of ire from Mike C for getting it all wrong, I offer this Stu:

I observe people, who I know follow the plan, doing
L1 sessions which tend to be full on short interval repeats - only scheduled on the run up to competition phase not in general training
L2 also a hard session but longer intervals - in all phases.
L3 longer again (12k) but lower threshold training - appears to be written as steady state, but looks grey zone to me.
L4 plays with rate quite a bit but is otherwise closest to what I call steady state

Despite these differences, all levels look challenging to me with pace guidance based on targeted 2k time. Results can't be argued with however - not only the successful teams they were designed for but also independent followers winning competitions and setting records.

Edit to answer your Q directly ...three L2s I know are:
5x1.5k, rest isn't really rest its 1.5k light rowing
4x2k, 1.5k r
3k/2.5k/2k, 1.5k/2k/1.5k r

Thanks Mike. I'd struggle with 2k + 5 for those type of sessions, and +8 is where I'd aim for, possibly increasing to +7 / 7.5

[KevinJGK]

I found these notes from Mike Caviston regarding Level 2.

"COMMENTS ABOUT LEVEL 2 Similar advice as for Level 1. Once a week is probably optimal. Don't obsess about how the pace relates to 2K; just get started and gradually improve every week. These workouts really require mental toughness and are good practice for getting used to handling a fairly high intensity for 2K and to visualize your race plan. I like to alternate between 3K/2.5K/2K and 4 x 2K as Level 2 workouts, or occasionally 5 x 1500m for a little variety and a little more speed. For 4 x 2K, I allow about 6-7' recovery (or use 15' centers when working with a group). "

[AndyH]

I found this in the wp-notes doc:


Mike Caviston - 18 Sep - 11:46:09 PM
Tracy,
FYI, I've modified that guideline a little bit. I suggest a reasonable beginning Level 2 pace would be 2K * 1.083,
and a reasonable pace for a continuous 12K would be 2K * 1.156. So someone with an 8:00 2K would attempt a
2:18.7 pace for 12K. Good luck!
Mike Caviston

[iain]

So the quote provided by Andy suggests it is the pace that needs multiplying.