Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[p_b82]

I don't respond very well to intervals - I find it very hard to get going again after a pause - and I will almost always hold back knowing I've got more harder work to come - It reduces my overall training efficiency, as intervals are exceptional training methods when done right.

What do you do with your rest period? Not sure on BPP, but the lunch hour has some generous rest periods (which you soon appreciate after a few cycles). If I outright stop, I often struggle to get going. If I "soft paddle" and tick over with bare minimum power, I'm good to go.

I don't generally ever have an actual interval with any rest defined - even a soft paddle is me switching off/out of the zone and I just can't get going again properly. It's all mental - but physically the sessions are always sub-par (been this way since school, so just work round it).

Simply I just don't do the really short stuff like X*500m - I'll warmup and throw in an effort 500m/2m etc, then get up recover completely (hr back to roughly 100) and either do another one, or cool down.
Or I just do a longer single piece like a 1500m or a 3k etc
Or I do something like 3 x Alternate (1,000m @ 5kP/2,000m @ MP) without any stopping, just immediately transition into the lower/higher pace/rate

[Dangerscouse]

What do you do with your rest period? Not sure on BPP, but the lunch hour has some generous rest periods.

Surely an hour is a bit too long to rest

[dmuskett]

Week 9 - Session 1
9000m – You’ve been going for a full 2 months now, and you’re probably starting to look ahead and wonder when these sessions will stop getting longer! Don’t worry, you’ll get a break from the increasing distance soon, and then you can start increasing the pace instead!

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
42:00.9	9,000m	2:20.0	127	738	21	137
8:29.2	1,800m	2:21.4	124	725	21	132
8:21.7	3,600m	2:19.3	129	745	20	138
8:20.5	5,400m	2:19.0	130	748	21	138
8:24.0	7,200m	2:20.0	128	738	22	140
8:25.5	9,000m	2:20.4	126	735	22	141

I am trying to build up this solid base to work more easily in Zone 2 and 3. Some days, I manage well, some others like this session, I am slightly out of it. The trend is very slowly down for average HR with all days being different.

I feel the plan is very helpful, no doubt, but, on a personal level, I feel that I need a lot more steady pace work. When I can, I add a session 8-9k and I may also repeat some weeks fully. The primary target was a 2k time when I started BPP but not solely now.

Everybody is different, but what should you expect to see in terms of fitness and heart rate at the end of the plan. If I aim for a 2:15 pace at the moment, I am out of Zone 3 after 2000m. Is BPP the right plan to achieve this?

I have this question a lot: what's the purpose of this plan? I'm likely never going to row on the water, living at least 2 hours from the nearest club. I don't care whatsoever about my 2k time. In general, I started rowing to get healthier and be active. But I know that I need a plan, and something where I can see improvement and something to push me. Thus, the BPP. I haven't ever come close to something like you just posted - 9k meters where your HR stayed from 137-141! looks like magical stuff from me "lived like a rock for a decade" perspective. I have to row at like 2:30 to even have my HR stay under 145-150, but I am doing my longer rows at 2:22 atm. Sometimes I think 'shouldn't I just be doing 2:30 rows for a long time?" But then I remember part of the reason is that I am too busy IRL and training in some lower zone for an hour may be better than training a bit harder for half an hour, but what I have is half an hour.

I also don't read the BPP plan as him pushing for these long rows to be done at a steady state HR. I feel like he wants us to be pushing ourselves on these. I dunno, I welcome any and all opinions on this.

BPP 3.1:

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 Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	HR
28:25.7	6,000m	2:22.1	122	719	19	152
5:45.0	1,200m	2:23.7	118	705	19	143
5:43.8	2,400m	2:23.2	119	709	19	150
5:42.5	3,600m	2:22.7	120	714	19	151
5:42.4	4,800m	2:22.6	121	714	19	156
5:31.9	6,000m	2:18.2	132	755	19	164

Ended up taking 3 days off due to life and then a bout of what was likely food poisoning. Took it slow and then started to feel my oats a little bit.

BPP 3.2:

Code: Select all

 
 Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
18:23.6	4,000m	2:17.9	133	758	19	150
9:18.9	2,000m	2:19.7	128	741	19	142
9:04.7	2,000m	2:16.1	139	777	19	159

Pete said: "2 x 2000m / 4min rest – This will be the first time you’ve tried longer intervals with a reasonably long rest time. Not too dissimilar to the 5th sessions of weeks 1 and 2 if you attempted those, but the longer rest and slightly lower distance mean you can push the pace a little more. Still focus on technique and efficiency, but try to go about 2seconds faster pace than the 6000m session of a day or two ago."

I set out for 2:20 per the instructions, but the second interval I wanted to push a bit harder. Ended up doing the last minute or so of the row at 2:08, ended the row feeling pretty good. I still have another week and a half of data from my previous attempt at the BPP, where it looks like I did 3.1 at a steady 2:20, and these intervals at 2:17 and 2:16. Significantly lower HR on this set of 2x2k, which makes sense with a bit lower pace.

[alex9026]

I also don't read the BPP plan as him pushing for these long rows to be done at a steady state HR. I feel like he wants us to be pushing ourselves on these. I dunno, I welcome any and all opinions on this.

BPP 3.1:

Code: Select all

 Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	HR
28:25.7	6,000m	2:22.1	122	719	19	152
5:45.0	1,200m	2:23.7	118	705	19	143
5:43.8	2,400m	2:23.2	119	709	19	150
5:42.5	3,600m	2:22.7	120	714	19	151
5:42.4	4,800m	2:22.6	121	714	19	156
5:31.9	6,000m	2:18.2	132	755	19	164

Ended up taking 3 days off due to life and then a bout of what was likely food poisoning. Took it slow and then started to feel my oats a little bit.

BPP 3.2:

Code: Select all

 
 Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
18:23.6	4,000m	2:17.9	133	758	19	150
9:18.9	2,000m	2:19.7	128	741	19	142
9:04.7	2,000m	2:16.1	139	777	19	159

Pete said: "2 x 2000m / 4min rest – This will be the first time you’ve tried longer intervals with a reasonably long rest time. Not too dissimilar to the 5th sessions of weeks 1 and 2 if you attempted those, but the longer rest and slightly lower distance mean you can push the pace a little more. Still focus on technique and efficiency, but try to go about 2seconds faster pace than the 6000m session of a day or two ago."

I set out for 2:20 per the instructions, but the second interval I wanted to push a bit harder. Ended up doing the last minute or so of the row at 2:08, ended the row feeling pretty good. I still have another week and a half of data from my previous attempt at the BPP, where it looks like I did 3.1 at a steady 2:20, and these intervals at 2:17 and 2:16. Significantly lower HR on this set of 2x2k, which makes sense with a bit lower pace.

Have you considered rowing without a heart rate monitor and purely on feel? You won't know your limits of recovery without sometimes pushing these steady metres. Re the days you might only have half an hour, it may be off plan, but again, no harm in pushing the pace a little.

Good strong finish on the 2x2k. Does the plan call for this session again? Your average pace here would serve as a starting point you want to set on the first interval next time out (sorry if you're fully aware of this concept!).

[alex9026]

Surely an hour is a bit too long to rest

Ha, I've been in them places where an hour rest would've been just about right!

[Nomark]

What do you do with your rest period? Not sure on BPP, but the lunch hour has some generous rest periods (which you soon appreciate after a few cycles). If I outright stop, I often struggle to get going. If I "soft paddle" and tick over with bare minimum power, I'm good to go.

I stop completely. Get off the erg, have a drink walk around a bit. Try and get my heart rate down. I think you are supposed to do some light strokes to stay loose, but you are supposed to warm up as well apparently

I don't have any issues restarting each round.

[Dangerscouse]

What do you do with your rest period? Not sure on BPP, but the lunch hour has some generous rest periods (which you soon appreciate after a few cycles). If I outright stop, I often struggle to get going. If I "soft paddle" and tick over with bare minimum power, I'm good to go.

I stop completely. Get off the erg, have a drink walk around a bit. Try and get my heart rate down. I think you are supposed to do some light strokes to stay loose, but you are supposed to warm up as well apparently

I don't have any issues restarting each round.

There's very much a difference in opinion on if it's a hindrance or a help, and it's fairly evenly split from what I've seen.

If it's two minutes or less, I stop but any longer than two minutes and I get restless and usually need to slowly paddle, but I've also had sessions where I've taken every last second available to rest.

[iain]

Re purpose of plan, I followed a similar structure for several years. As I had a very unfit childhood I never developed a good base although I saw a large improvement in all PBs, I was still uncompetitive. Pete doesn't do UT2 so SS is at UT1. I think that for a fit 30 odd with a good base this may be a good approach. Especially dating back to the days of regular racing. But I now think that for ex-couch potatoes slower work makes a difference having taken strides forward in Covid with 90min+ slow rows and am now doing 50% of my rowing around top of UT2. Unfortunately My HR races up with little effort, so I stay at a pace where I can maintain a decent stroke at low rating and have seen HR steadily decline. I agree that for optimal fitness some faster work is necessary, the question is whether this can be packed into a short period after a period of mainly SS? I would also say that "cardiac fitness" is poorly defined and includes anything from 2k to FM where different training is optimum. Personally as someone who will not be challenging for hammers unless all my contemporary rowers have stopped, what matters is that the training is interesting enough to keep me at it. Yes more slower SS might get me a few more watts, but stopping would lose me more! So BPP is great for those that like seeing improvements and are not motivated by LSDs.

Re rests, I normally row steadily until 2 min left, then slow to gentle paddle for a min and rest completely with drink for last min.

[Joris]

I am trying to build up this solid base to work more easily in Zone 2 and 3. Some days, I manage well, some others like this session, I am slightly out of it. The trend is very slowly down for average HR with all days being different.

I feel the plan is very helpful, no doubt, but, on a personal level, I feel that I need a lot more steady pace work. When I can, I add a session 8-9k and I may also repeat some weeks fully. The primary target was a 2k time when I started BPP but not solely now.

Everybody is different, but what should you expect to see in terms of fitness and heart rate at the end of the plan. If I aim for a 2:15 pace at the moment, I am out of Zone 3 after 2000m. Is BPP the right plan to achieve this?

I started rowing about 4 months ago and haven't done any endurance sport before, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but from what I've read I would say the BPP is indeed a good plan if you want to increase your general fitness, especially if you don't have the time to do longer (and slower) steady state sessions.
Like you mentioned, it's a training plan to achieve a fast 2.000m, but for being able to do that you not only need strength and speed, but also, and especially, a good condition base.

Concerning steady state pace. These sessions are aimed as 'recovery' sessions. (Semi-) pros who row +20 hours a week should do these at low heart rates to avoid fatigue. When training less, you can still do those sessions at very low heart rate, but there is another school of thought that states that in that case it might be better to train at a slightly higher heart rate so that you get the most out of your ‘short’ training time.
Whichever school you follow, both do argue that steady state sessions should not make you tired for the interval sessions, as it is during these sessions that you train extra strength and thus need to be fully rested.

Personally I try to stay in (the high end of) zone 3, which makes that my pace is at 2:30, which is indeed much slower than during interval sessions, and which is also a lot slower than most other forum members here.

I haven't ever come close to something like you just posted - 9k meters where your HR stayed from 137-141! looks like magical stuff from me "lived like a rock for a decade" perspective. I have to row at like 2:30 to even have my HR stay under 145-150, but I am doing my longer rows at 2:22 atm. Sometimes I think 'shouldn't I just be doing 2:30 rows for a long time?" But then I remember part of the reason is that I am too busy IRL and training in some lower zone for an hour may be better than training a bit harder for half an hour, but what I have is half an hour.

If you recover well, than rowing at 2:22 is probably okay for you. If, by contrast, you don't feel completely fit at the start of an interval session, than you are probably going too fast.

I'm currently in week 12 of the BPP and I am starting to feel my fitness improving even if I did my steady state sessions at 2:30.
Is this the fastest way to improve? I don't know. But it works for me and since distances are no longer systematically increasing by now, and since there are also shorter steady state sessions, this offers the opportunity to gradually start increasing the pace on these steady state sessions, without going above zone 3 heart rate.
For example, I recently paced my 10k sessions at 2:29 and 2:28 and for the 8k sessions 2:28, 2:27 and 2:26. This is still low pacing, but it's satisfying to see this is working without my heart rate is going into AT zone.

I also don't read the BPP plan as him pushing for these long rows to be done at a steady state HR. I feel like he wants us to be pushing ourselves on these. I dunno, I welcome any and all opinions on this.

Concerning the Pete Plan (so not written in the beginner Pete plan but I assume the reasoning should be about the same), Pete writes the following:
" The only guideline for pacing the steady distance sessions is that they should be within the bounds of 22 to 25spm, and at such a pace as you recover sufficiently for the hard session the following day. If in doubt, go slower! These sessions should be at least 10 seconds slower pace than your endurance interval sessions.

Always take a complete rest day every week – it is as important as any of the sessions you do! "

My gap between interval and steady state is currently much wider than 10 seconds, but as my fitness increases this gap will narrow I suspect.
I prefer staying out of AT zone for the longer steady state sessions above trying to narrowing the gap to quickly.

[Dangerscouse]

I also don't read the BPP plan as him pushing for these long rows to be done at a steady state HR. I feel like he wants us to be pushing ourselves on these. I dunno, I welcome any and all opinions on this.

I agree with Alex. I use HR but it can definitely be beneficial in just rowing without and fine tuning your RPE, especially when you're starting out.

When you see a comparably higher HR it can feel like you're doing something wrong, but it can just be what is right for you. There's not a specific 'correct' HR, as we all have different maximum and minimum HRs, and if you're getting too focused on it, get rid of it for a while at least as relaxing is an important part of the steady state sessions.

[dmuskett]

Concerning the Pete Plan (so not written in the beginner Pete plan but I assume the reasoning should be about the same), Pete writes the following:
" The only guideline for pacing the steady distance sessions is that they should be within the bounds of 22 to 25spm, and at such a pace as you recover sufficiently for the hard session the following day. If in doubt, go slower! These sessions should be at least 10 seconds slower pace than your endurance interval sessions.

I have not seen that particular bit before. I have been doing the long rows at 18-20 SPM. I read a bit from the regular Pete Plan and saw this:

"The full Wolverine Plan contained too many sessions per week to fit in with my other commitments, and I didn’t enjoy the very low rate sessions. "

Is this because he doesn't like going at a slower rate or does he ever articulate a general reason?

[Citroen]

Pete's plan was designed (from the Wolverine Plan) to take a lunch hour, including changing time. I don't think Pete had any other rhyme nor reasons for his pace suggestions.

[dmuskett]

Pete's plan was designed (from the Wolverine Plan) to take a lunch hour, including changing time. I don't think Pete had any other rhyme nor reasons for his pace suggestions.

I find it a little amusing that here we are trying to follow this plan and I think you are probably correct. It's like the old joke (that I am about to brutally butcher) about a guy that joins a new Dojo. The sensei there tells him he is wrapping his belt incorrectly, it is very important that he wraps it 3 times around instead of two. The sensei explains "This is the tradition and how it has always been". Well the dude finds this curious (and thinks that the belt doesn't tie properly this way) so he goes and finds his sensei's teacher who says the same thing. He follows up the tree of Sensei's and eventually finds an old and very short sensei. He asks this sensei "why do we have to wrap our belt around three times". The sensei says "Oh, I just do that because I'm so short, and it gets in the way otherwise".

Regardless, I did 3.3 today and was thinking about rates. I find it quite comfortable and natural to stay at 18 SPM, but I am definitely stronger as opposed to possessing of aerobic fitness.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
28:09.5	6,000m	2:20.7	125	731	18	146
5:39.5	1,200m	2:21.4	124	725	18	134
5:39.7	2,400m	2:21.5	123	724	18	144
5:40.5	3,600m	2:21.8	123	721	18	147
5:40.4	4,800m	2:21.8	123	722	18	148
5:29.5	6,000m	2:17.2	135	765	23	158

Pete said: " 6000m – Again, aim for the same pace as your first 6000m session a few days ago. Don’t worry if these sessions feel harder some days and you don’t make your target. Many things can affect your performance from fatigue from previous sessions, to environmental conditions such as temperature, to hydration and nutrition. Any day you don’t perform so well, try to pinpoint anything you might have done differently, and note it down."

My previous 6k had been around a 2:22, but I knew that my previous 3.1/3.3 had been at 2:20.8 and 2:20.1, so I initially set off with a goal of holding a 2:22 as tightly as possible and then pushing it the last 1200 meters to see what that brought me to. I remain incapable of holding at a number and not undershooting it a bit, but I did my best here. During the row, I decided to try to go at a 24 SPM for the last 1200 and just focus on that and not worry about what the pace ended up being. 24 is way different than 18! I've been rowing my short intervals at about a 30 but it took me a while to figure out how to get past 21/22 and up to 24. Did my best to think about technique and maintain it at a higher stroke rate, but you can definitely see what happened to my HR.

[iain]

Pete trained at R20 for some time prior to PP. His comment was that while he became faster at R20 he became slower at everything else. As a result he decided to train at higher ratings. The PP was designed by Pete for himself. He did not mean it for others. I surmise that Pete was "sharp" with a good basic fitness (he had previously followed the WP)when doing the R20 and so "detuned" which was reflected in his disappointing performances when rating up. The test would only have been valid if he had followed by sharpening up and not returned to his previous times in say 8 weeks.

Any consistent training will give improvements in fitness when done by the poorly trained or after a significant lay off. I find all of Pete's plans concentrate more on sharpening than building a strong base. This was useful when they were created as there were a lot of races and so training was largely about remaining race fit (for Pete at least). I have seen very little analysis or research on training for the unfit that examines it as a base for more demanding training. But suspect from my progress training primarily on Pete's plans that they do not fully develop the fitness base and so lead to plateauing below potential for people without a sporting background.

Having said that, most of us are not aiming for the very best that we are capable of in the long term but to stay fit and enjoy incremental improvements. I think BPP works well for many in doing this and many would not wish to devote the hours to long LSDs that improvements would probably require.

[Nomark]

Concerning steady state pace. These sessions are aimed as 'recovery' sessions. (Semi-) pros who row +20 hours a week should do these at low heart rates to avoid fatigue. When training less, you can still do those sessions at very low heart rate, but there is another school of thought that states that in that case it might be better to train at a slightly higher heart rate so that you get the most out of your ‘short’ training time.
Whichever school you follow, both do argue that steady state sessions should not make you tired for the interval sessions, as it is during these sessions that you train extra strength and thus need to be fully rested.

With the caveat that I've been in this sport for even less time than you, that is my exact understanding of steady state pace and is very well laid out. I sometimes choose the latter approach and row a little bit fast because I don't do the quantity that requires me to slow down. Although even saying that I can feel when I need a day off after. I can do this because I don't train 6 days a week and I'm not going to the Olympics so it's not an issue to take time out. If and when I get more serious I may have to look this if I am over training, but no danger of that yet! This whole philosophy seems to come from a TED talk about cross country skiiers and how they spend 90% of their time at very low rates. I'm not sure if anyone has bothered to study middle aged amateurs lol. But the most important thing is what keeps you coming back. We could all optimise our training more, but I like feeling a bit heavy legged and tired. It makes *me* feel like I've done something and want to keep doing that. Other people may hate that feeling and want to feel fresh and energetic after a workout. Whatever keeps you coming back for more is optimum.

In my limited experience steady state is where the gains are. Intervals and 2k times are for show but it's the long steady pieces that give you the gains to post quicker times.