training advice for 100m, 60sec and 500m

[Frankie]

As per the subject title, hoping to get serious pb's with those 3 events.

My current PB's (not great)

60sec = 303m
100m = 17.1sec
500m = 2:10.8

Need training advice as best as possible

[PleaseLockIn]

I don't have a lot of advice for 100m, 60s and 500m. My 500m PB was a long time ago - 1:54.8 at r32.

But I simply do not understand how you manage a ~17s 100m but a 2:10 500m. At my fitness level my 500m is ~1:50 to 1:54 and I would not be confident in a sub-20 100m

It seems as if your aerobic capacity is sorely lacking. I suggest a concept 2 500m plan, or even long intervals to improve aerobic capacity. Some steady state may help.

You can pull 100m at 560W but 500m at 156.4W? Surely this is crazy.

[Frankie]

Could be cardio issue. I feel power is decent

[alex9026]

Have you actually tested your 500m? A 300m sixty seconds, coupled with the above re your 100m, doesn't add up...

To answer your question though, there is a massive shift on energy demands from a 100m to 500m. For 100m, I'd rely on getting strong in the gym and practicing a high rate on the Erg. For 500m, carry that strength over with a considerably bigger aerobic engine. For the one minute, it's often a case of just holding on...

How tall and heavy are you? Age? Training history? Current training?

[p_b82]

I've no specific advice - but it does appear that you've got explosive power based on the 100m time of 550+w; but are not able to maintain that.

your 60s is a 1:39split - which is 360W, but your 500m is sub 160w - I'm wondering if there's a technique issue here as well as that drop is significant.

on the two slightly longer sprints at the end of the pieces what was the difference in pace/rate than at the start? - there could be a pacing issue here and you've really fly'd and died - aka gone out way to fast and a flatter pace would yield better results.
Which set of muscles weren't able to keep up with the demands being made of them? (tied to the technique thoughts here)

what is your rating over these pieces too?

i personally can't get anywhere close to 500w currently; but I was able to hold 375W for my 500m (which I did on a whim while doing marathon training so hadn't done any high rate work - only averaged r35) so it would suggest that you probably do need to focus on your cardio for a little bit in order to sustain the high power that you are able to generate.

[Frankie]

Have you actually tested your 500m? A 300m sixty seconds, coupled with the above re your 100m, doesn't add up...

To answer your question though, there is a massive shift on energy demands from a 100m to 500m. For 100m, I'd rely on getting strong in the gym and practicing a high rate on the Erg. For 500m, carry that strength over with a considerably bigger aerobic engine. For the one minute, it's often a case of just holding on...

How tall and heavy are you? Age? Training history? Current training?

I think around 250m to 300m im at my best but once I hit high 200m’s I feel the brakes hitting hard.

Am 190cm 133kgs started around 6 weeks ago currently do 1 rowerg and 1 skierg session a week each.

Apart from that do weights 2-3 days a week usually 10-12 reps of 3 sets at moderate to high weights. So for lat pulldown I’d do 6-8 reps of 100kgs

[Sakly]

Can only echo Alex, the 500 seems absolutely off and not tested at max at all.
The 1min in relation to your 100m shows a huge drop, which is to be expected of course, but is really big and indicates a weak aerobic engine.
When I started on the erg I had a similar 100m, but a 332m 1min. My 500 was a 1:34.5 at that time.

You gave no info about you and your training experience. But I fully agree to Alex here as well. Get stronger and more explosive for the 100m, rate up as high as possible.
For the 1min and 500 I find power translates well into these, too, but you need a bigger CVS to maintain that over distance. Both pieces are not something you can pace properly, so fly and die is the way to go.

[Frankie]

I've no specific advice - but it does appear that you've got explosive power based on the 100m time of 550+w; but are not able to maintain that.

your 60s is a 1:39split - which is 360W, but your 500m is sub 160w - I'm wondering if there's a technique issue here as well as that drop is significant.

on the two slightly longer sprints at the end of the pieces what was the difference in pace/rate than at the start? - there could be a pacing issue here and you've really fly'd and died - aka gone out way to fast and a flatter pace would yield better results.
Which set of muscles weren't able to keep up with the demands being made of them? (tied to the technique thoughts here)

what is your rating over these pieces too?

i personally can't get anywhere close to 500w currently; but I was able to hold 375W for my 500m (which I did on a whim while doing marathon training so hadn't done any high rate work - only averaged r35) so it would suggest that you probably do need to focus on your cardio for a little bit in order to sustain the high power that you are able to generate.

Yeah I’m guessing it’s more power over cardio in my favour. It’s kinda similar for skierg..

100m = 18.6
60sec = 284m

Usually once I hit the 250m mark on ski or row the breathing kicks in as well as lactic feeling in the arms and shoulders. Dont know how to explain my times

[Sakly]

Am 190cm 133kgs started around 6 weeks ago currently do 1 rowerg and 1 skierg session a week each.

Apart from that do weights 2-3 days a week usually 10-12 reps of 3 sets at moderate to high weights. So for lat pulldown I’d do 6-8 reps of 100kgs

Ok, strength definitely not your problem, but very obvious to me, even without seeing it, it must be technique.
With 190cm and 133kg and your given strength, you should be able to pull a sub 16 on a 100m immediately, even with only average technique. The only reason which could speak against it: you are morbidly obese and your weight does not cover much muscles, but a very big belly.

[Frankie]

Am 190cm 133kgs started around 6 weeks ago currently do 1 rowerg and 1 skierg session a week each.

Apart from that do weights 2-3 days a week usually 10-12 reps of 3 sets at moderate to high weights. So for lat pulldown I’d do 6-8 reps of 100kgs

Ok, strength definitely not your problem, but very obvious to me, even without seeing it, it must be technique.
With 190cm and 133kg and your given strength, you should be able to pull a sub 16 on a 100m immediately, even with only average technique. The only reason which could speak against it: you are morbidly obese and your weight does not cover much muscles, but a very big belly.

Yeah that’s a certain factor.

What weight would you say is ideal for 190cm? I was thinking 110kg? I think Shawn baker who’s late 50s is 6’5 260lb and holds world records in his age group for 100m, 60sec and 500m

[Sakly]

Am 190cm 133kgs started around 6 weeks ago currently do 1 rowerg and 1 skierg session a week each.

Apart from that do weights 2-3 days a week usually 10-12 reps of 3 sets at moderate to high weights. So for lat pulldown I’d do 6-8 reps of 100kgs

Ok, strength definitely not your problem, but very obvious to me, even without seeing it, it must be technique.
With 190cm and 133kg and your given strength, you should be able to pull a sub 16 on a 100m immediately, even with only average technique. The only reason which could speak against it: you are morbidly obese and your weight does not cover much muscles, but a very big belly.

Yeah that’s a certain factor.

What weight would you say is ideal for 190cm? I was thinking 110kg? I think Shawn baker who’s late 50s is 6’5 260lb and holds world records in his age group for 100m, 60sec and 500m

The ideal weight for 190 is the weight you have with plenty of muscles in a relatively lean state. There is no optimal number.
I'm at 82kg at 177cm, but my training partner is at 77-78kg and 178cm. He looks bigger than me, but has less strength in core and legs, more in upper body. So it's all relative.
It's not the weight, it's the type of muscles, your CVS and how you can use it.

[gvcormac]

Most of my sprinting knowledge comes from running, but I think it transfers. Note that the word "sprint" is used differently by rowers and bikers than by runners. In running, we mean an all-out effort that seldom lasts more than 40 seconds. That is, 100m, 200m, and (for elites) 400m.

100m is strength and fast-twitch dominated. Nearly 100% anaerobic.

60s is about the max that elite athletes can sprint with all-out effort. Most of us slow down a lot after about 20s.

You can train 100m by doing 50m reps. Maybe weight training, but IMO sprinting is the best training for sprinting.

You can train 60s by doing 40s reps. Unless you are elite, you'll need to do these a bit more slowly.

First and foremost, learn to do 500m at a steady pace. Then do reps at just a hair below that pace.

[alex9026]

Yeah that’s a certain factor.

What weight would you say is ideal for 190cm? I was thinking 110kg? I think Shawn baker who’s late 50s is 6’5 260lb and holds world records in his age group for 100m, 60sec and 500m

Shawn is an outlier, he would be an unfair comparison for anyone. Honestly, I would look at body composition and general fitness overall here and fix this. If you were doing 6-8 bodyweight pull ups at 130kg it would be a different story. A lat pull down (or any machine) as a metric is meaningless.

[MPx]

So the ultra sprints. My favs....but why have you decided to target them? I'm going to be contraversioal here, and apologies if it comes across as a bit too damning, but I think you're heading off down the wrong path. Current results suggest you are new to the erg. Flailing about at the very high rates necessary for strong ultrasprint scores will not do anything to develop your stroke - and the current lack of power in the stroke suggests that it needs some significant development. You're a big person at 133kg. Over the few strokes of the 100m you avg 1:25 pace or 569 watts - no soooo bad, but by the 500m that's dropped to 2:11 or just 156watts or not much more than 1w/kg - that's quite low for ultra distance let alone a sprint. So my suggestion:

Ignore sprints for a few months. Pick a pace - maybe 2:10. Learn to keep that split using a proper (powerful) stroke at a low rate (20 - 24 spm). Start just keeping it going for a few 100m or whatever you can without letting the stroke pace drop. Gradually add distance as you can - say another 100m per week, but importantly keeping up the pace at the same low rate. Over time you'll get up to 5k or more. Once you can do that, then come back and get some sprint drills - not much point in trying to run fast on the spot - you need to learn to stride.

On the other hand...the best exercise you can do is one that keeps you coming back for more. If its only the ultra sprints that motivates, flail about all you want and don't let me put you off.

[Frankie]

So the ultra sprints. My favs....but why have you decided to target them? I'm going to be contraversioal here, and apologies if it comes across as a bit too damning, but I think you're heading off down the wrong path. Current results suggest you are new to the erg. Flailing about at the very high rates necessary for strong ultrasprint scores will not do anything to develop your stroke - and the current lack of power in the stroke suggests that it needs some significant development. You're a big person at 133kg. Over the few strokes of the 100m you avg 1:25 pace or 569 watts - no soooo bad, but by the 500m that's dropped to 2:11 or just 156watts or not much more than 1w/kg - that's quite low for ultra distance let alone a sprint. So my suggestion:

Ignore sprints for a few months. Pick a pace - maybe 2:10. Learn to keep that split using a proper (powerful) stroke at a low rate (20 - 24 spm). Start just keeping it going for a few 100m or whatever you can without letting the stroke pace drop. Gradually add distance as you can - say another 100m per week, but importantly keeping up the pace at the same low rate. Over time you'll get up to 5k or more. Once you can do that, then come back and get some sprint drills - not much point in trying to run fast on the spot - you need to learn to stride.

On the other hand...the best exercise you can do is one that keeps you coming back for more. If its only the ultra sprints that motivates, flail about all you want and don't let me put you off.

Yes I’m new, as stated been doing erg around 5 or 6 weeks now at around 1 season per week. I’ll normally focus on the 100m and 60sec in 1 session.

I think the main issue is cardio as I feel like I’m hitting the wall at around the 250m point, hence the poor 500m pb.

Ideally I’d need to drop around 20kgs to keep a good power to cardio ratio to do well in 100, 60s and 500.

Great pb’s on tour signature by the way