Elbow pain

[Dutch]

Since about May I have experienced painful elbows, probably longer. I used to get a sports massage on forearms and it would go away and it was mainly due to tight muscles.
When this started I tried all the usual things, pills, heat creams, massage only worked until the next day, but I just learnt to live with it to be honest.
Then I watched an article on Insta about how dead hangs heal a lot of shoulder issues and the arms are all connected. So I started to do them with 2 hands and it helped with stiff upper back but not arms.
But I did know that deadlifting gave me relief from sore arms for up to 3 days, So I took the initiative to start hanging single armed from a pull up bar. Now in the past I have never been able to hang one armed static. I would try and try but used to get terrible pains in the side delts.

So I found a vid on youtube showing how to build up to it and hey presto nearly instant relief for the elbows. I went in 3 weeks from 1 second with feet clear of the ground to 40 seconds per arm. I do brace the non hanging arm on the wall sometimes to stop my body turning, plus it helps a little with support.
The whole point though is that for me the elbow pain is muscle tightness all up the arms to the delts and now I am practically pain free and I only have to hang about once every 3 days after about 4 and a half weeks of doing it.
I would be interested to hear if anyone else does this ?

[Tsnor]

Since about May I have experienced painful elbows, probably longer. ...
I would be interested to hear if anyone else does this ?

Glad hanging fixed your elbow problem. I know people who hang to help back issues. Didn't know it could help with elbow problems.

I had tennis elbow for a while, which is one of many possible different elbow problems. Got rid of it with eccentric strengthening exercises (load only as the muscle lengthens, no work on contraction). Worked immediately. I was shocked how well it worked. Not sure if problem was from volleyball or rowing, but it showed up big time after trying to one hand dig a hard hit ball that was slightly behind me. Killed about a month of winter training. I used one of these therabands (I bought three colors, used the weak red one 99% of time). https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006 ... =UTF8&th=1 Just doing the exercise gave immediate pain relief. Took two weeks to see huge improvement. Everything is fine now. Google "tyler twist elbow" or look for videos on youtube.

Studies were pretty definitive:

"Conclusion The Tyler twist technique was found to be a more effective therapeutic intervention for lateral epicondylitis as a significant decrease in pain on the NPRS and an increase in grip strength on a handheld dynamometer were observed."
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10634653/

" in particular, the eccentric exercise group improved their pain level 81% vs. 22% in the standard group. Strength was also significantly more improved in the eccentric group, 79% vs. 15% improvement in the standard group. The DASH Score improved 76% in the FlexBar® group compared to only 13% in the control group." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2971639/

[Jessicajackson90]

At first when I began to exercise and workouts, I felt pain in my whole body. I used to take medicines and it seems to be inevitable, then again, once I get habituated to the pain, the medicine usages gone down. So, if there's any other way to get relief from the workout pain, do let me know.

[Slidewinder]

A year ago I posted this 25 second video, "Best advice to prevent wrist and elbow injuries." It worked for me. [youtube]https://youtu.be/gjjETRL47og?si=cI9vjaLmyYzMrV-f[/youtube]

[Jessicajackson90]

Well that was hilarious. You have just taken out the main reason of the elbow pain. But would it be there any other way to do the same.

[jamesg]

But would there be any other way to do the same.

Erging, rowing and sculling have never caused me any problems.

As one hears, the devil is in the details. The style I was taught is like this:

http://3.8.144.21/training/technique

[Slidewinder]

Well that was hilarious. You have just taken out the main reason of the elbow pain. But would it be there any other way to do the same.

A rowing ergometer handle is a human/machine interface. At any such interface the machine should adapt to the natural movement of the user, not the user to the machine, as is the case with the stock C2 handle. As the stroke progresses it is natural for the angle between the user's forearms and the C2 handle to change, but since the handle is a single piece and rigid it does not adapt to the user's movement, resulting in various joint angulations under load and consequent repetitive strain injuries. I recall a Forum thread in which five of the posters suffered severe wrist and elbow injuries, forcing them to discontinue their rowing ergometer workouts. Two were slated for surgery!

There are many technique instruction videos. All of the given advice is founded on the optimistic notion that 'technique' can overcome the design defects of the stock C2 handle. Read the recent 'Split Handles' thread by 'Nates'. His set-up is far from perfect, but if you do not have a long reach at the catch, it could be what you need.

[JaapvanE]

Erging, rowing and sculling have never caused me any problems.

It usually comes down to poor technique. Deathgripping the handle or breaking the arms too early are the typical cullprits. I'm part of a pretty big group (100+) of long distance rowers (most of us 10K+ a day, 365 days a year), and I never see this issue either. Loosly hanging on the handle during the most part of the drive is key here. Being long distance oriented makes us focus on technique a lot, as small errors tend to accumulate to big issue due to distance and training load.

It isn't natural for most though, most gym goers are way too stressed and pull way too early. Improving technique is actually the only way to really prevent this as the tension throughout the stroke is still there.

[Dave Neve]

Hello

Even though I cannot hang with one hand, I've found hanging with two and doing various movements (sideways, twisting and swinging forwards and backwards) has helped a lot with shoulder pain and elbow pain too to a lesser extent.

The good thing about hanging is you are starting it for the first time, is that even if you can't hang with two hands, it's no problem; You just place your toes lightly on the ground and then let your body weight do the rest.

[Slidewinder]

JaapvanE and Jamesg have responded in the approved fashion. They both state that they have never experienced such an issue, and in a seemingly kind gesture, Jamesg provides a link to an instructional video on rowing ergometer technique. The underlying message is typical on this Forum, and elsewhere: You have only yourself to blame for your injuries. Probably many, many others with wrist, elbow, and shoulder injuries choose to remain silent because they know they will get no sympathy here.

Just do it the way the guy in the linked instructional video does it, they all say. Well, I could direct you to a video in which members of the US Olympic rowing team are shown working out on C2 rower units. Measured against the guy in the instructional video, every one of those Olympic rowers would get a failing grade on technique. Unlike him, their hands, wrists, and forearms become ever more angled and out of alignment as the stroke progresses. If Olympic rowers can't get it right, can't cope with that non-compliant rigid stick of a handle, then what hope is there for mere mortals like us? High school geometry - that is all that is needed to properly design an articulated handle that would ensure the bio-mechanically correct alignment of the hands, wrists, and forearms, throughout the stroke.

[Citroen]

JaapvanE and Jamesg have responded in the approved fashion.

And Slidewinder has responded in exactly the way we expect with exactly the negative arguments he always spouts.

[JaapvanE]

And Slidewinder has responded in exactly the way we expect with exactly the negative arguments he always spouts.

Thanks for summarising. Essentially blaming the machine for a users fault. The problem I have with blaming the machine is that it doesn't address the root cause, and thus will lead to issues further down the road when people start to row longer distances or transition to OTW.

As package maintainer for OpenRowingMonitor I can say I have seen the schematics of 99% of the machines in the market, or that will appear on the market in the next two years. In essence, C2's handle hasn't seen any improvements, even from notorious innovators like RP3. If it would be a huge issue as some claim, it would have been addressed by at least one of them.

[reuben]

JaapvanE and Jamesg have responded in the approved fashion.

And Slidewinder has responded in exactly the way we expect with exactly the negative arguments he always spouts.

+1

[jamesg]

the approved fashion.

Quite so. No one's technique is perfect, so start there.

[Slidewinder]

And Slidewinder has responded in exactly the way we expect with exactly the negative arguments he always spouts.

Essentially blaming the machine for a users fault. The problem I have with blaming the machine is that it doesn't address the root cause, and thus will lead to issues further down the road when people start to row longer distances or transition to OTW.

Forty years of indoctrination, of pulling on a handle that keeps your hands forever locked in one position - that is what it takes to wipe from users' minds even the possibility that enabling some hand movement, lateral and rotational, would be a huge improvement - not just in injury reduction, but in opening up the machine to its real potential. It would enable various non-rowing stroke geometries - completely viable exercises that engage other muscle groups and add variety and interest to the workout program; and also, for rowing athletes it would provide a better replication of OTW rowing. During OTW rowing the hands are not locked in one position. There is an angular progression of the oar handgrips as the stroke progresses. Therefore if the rowing ergometer handle enables this it would be an improved training tool. It would ease the 'transition to OTW'.

From catch to finish, the paths followed by the handgrips of the stock C2 handle are two straight, parallel lines. This relates to nothing OTW, and it relates to no natural human movement. All 'technique' advice is an attempt by users to cope with the incompatibility between the straight-line movement dictated by the C2 handle, and the natural arc that the user's hands want to follow from catch to finish. That is the source of all user wrist and elbow problems. The machine, the handle, is the root cause.