Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[Nomark]

Time to switch gears for a month or two. The BPP was great for building up a foundation. I'm making the jump to the rowalong 2k plan which was build around the Pete Plan. Goal is to go sub 8 at a couple of upcoming 2k erg events....

Good luck with it and let us know how it goes. Its still early days for me on the BPP but I have half an eye on what to do next.

Your quick improvements definitely help me as well to push a little extra during the interval sessions.

Yes it's nice to be at a similar stage, like having a training buddy. It's good for accountability too so I don't miss any sessions going forward.

Bit of an odd week this week for me - took a long time to fully shake my cold, so after doing days 1 and 2 of week 4 I tried to take it easy (er) to recover completely. Did a few SS 1-3ks just to keep my eye in so to speak. And finally got around to day 3 today, 6.5k at my SS pace (2.18-22ish). Felt good for not having done any real distance since Monday so happy with that. On to week 5 tomorrow!

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Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	S/M		
30:37.8 6,500m	2:21.3	124	23
6:04.8  1,300m	2:20.3	127	24
6:07.6	1,300m	2:21.3	124	23
6:08.9	1,300m	2:21.8	123	22
6:07.6	1,300m	2:21.3	124	23
6:08.9	1,300m	2:21.8	123	22
HRmax 150

[iain]

I think if I was in your shoes I'd go one of two ways.

• accept that for this try-out the pace requirements are bit steep for you just now - eps as lightweight, your competition is likely going to have both height and weight advantages on you.
  continue following any of the plans that work for you and just get fitter/stronger and aim for next try out.

• Really focus on the 10Wmin strokes going forwards
  Adjust your training to have the volume at slow pace for recovery but all your hard sessions are done at 10+Wmin

you can either do r20 @200W+ or ramp up the rating for sprints, but keep the Wmin the same - so r25 = 250W etc.

It might be worth having an honest and frank discussion with your coach to get his advice & opinion about your readiness - he'll have seen plenty of people in your shoes before and could/should be able to give you honest advice on what your odds are of making the cut with the time left to you.

While I agree with approach, my suggestion included working up to 10WMin as you have not got close to this for a significant time. I was assuming that even 1min R20 might not be repeatable so working up would take too long.

Also I find high work strokes leave my muscles very tired hence the suggestion of doing 2 hard sessions concentrating on this while doing SS at a reduced work per stroke but still concentrating on good form and low rates.

[Joris]

* Week 9 Day 3 [8000m]

Opted for a 2:28 split, just like last week for the 8k session of day 3.
My average heart rate (138) was a few beats higher than my regular heart rate of 134 during SS-sessions at 2:30 splits, but lower than my average heart rate of last weeks 8k session at 143 BPM.
So nice on track to slowely decrease my split on the SS-distances without increasing my heart rate too much.

Week 9 Day 2 [4 x 800m / 2min rest]

For the first time, I targeted a 2:00 split, which would mean 3:12 on 800 meters, with the hope of diving just a few tenths below it for each rep during the last strokes.

• Rep 1: 3:12.03
  Rep 2: 3:11.90
  Rep 3: 3:12.18
  Rep 4: 3:11.47

Finally I couldn't manage to go below 3:12 on every rep, but on average I did stay below the symbolic threshold of 2:00 splits, so it feels like a partial victory and the achievement of a new milestone!

[AndyH]

Time to switch gears for a month or two. The BPP was great for building up a foundation. I'm making the jump to the rowalong 2k plan which was build around the Pete Plan. Goal is to go sub 8 at a couple of upcoming 2k erg events....

Good luck with it and let us know how it goes. Its still early days for me on the BPP but I have half an eye on what to do next.

Thanks - after the first week I'm quickly realizing there's more intensity than I can recover from.

Moving to Plan B for now: going to do the Rowalong 10k plan focusing on building a solid base and will try again in a few months.....still planning on a couple of 2k races in the next months, only with lower expectations

[iain]

I'm making the jump to the rowalong 2k plan which was build around the Pete Plan. Goal is to go sub 8 at a couple of upcoming 2k erg events....

Moving to Plan B for now: going to do the Rowalong 10k plan focusing on building a solid base and will try again in a few months.....still planning on a couple of 2k races in the next months, only with lower expectations

I would suggest adding an extra rest day or 2 as required and extending the period of the plan. Alternatively rather than extra rest, do a modest SS at UT2. 2k is a nasty beast that I would not like to race without appropriate preparation as the pain and rapid decent into oxygen debt is wholly different to a 10k. JMHO and you could compromise by doing a couple of weeks of the 10k before switching into the end of the 2k plan.

[Nomark]

Been a mixed week. On Monday I was getting a bit fed up not feeling 100%. My stupid kids are germ carrier monkeys!!! Anyway, wasn't really feeling it so decided to ease into week 5 with the optional 20 minute row. Felt ok. Not great, but ok. I can see why people say some days you can just feel it more than others. I'm still very motivated, just a bit wiped. I started quite slow to ease into it and then figured I was ok to go a bit harder. I think because I haven't really done any proper exercise for years apart from walking the dog and playing with kids that I haven't been impatient with feeling 100% before after getting a lingering cold but it's really screwing up my rowing plans!!

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Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	S/M		
20:00   4,233m	2:21.7	123	19
4:00    813m	2:27.6	109	21
20:00	850m	2:21.1	124	19
4:00	856m	2:20.1	127	19
4:00	852m	2:20.8	125	18
4:00	862m	2:19.2	130	18
HRmax 150

Took a couple of days out and then went back to week 5, day 1 yesterday. 7,000m. Furthest I've ever been. And it felt good! Not the best, but do-able. Pace wasn't very consistent but in the right area. It still felt quite a long way though and I found myself wondering how I was going to do almost 50% more for a 10k, but then realized that's still 6 weeks away, so should be fine by then. Decent pace. I think my HR was rising a little so maybe not strictly SS, but close enough. Definitely on the mend though. A quicker, longer row than Monday with a lower HR. Might have to delay the start of Week 6 depending on whether I can squeeze in the remaining 2 core pieces before Monday

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Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	S/M		
39:15.1 7,000m	2:19.7	128	20
6:38.6  1,400m	2:22.3	121	22
6:38.6	1,400m	2:19.4	129	20
6:32.7	1,400m	2:20.2	127	21
6:28.7	1,400m	2:18.8	131	19
6:25.8	1,400m	2:17.7	134	20
HRmax 140

[Joris]

* Week 9 Day 4 [8000m]

Opted for a 2:28 split, just like the last two 8k sessions. Average heart rate dropped a bit further and ended up lower than my average heart rate for the long SS-sessions, so I will probably try to speed up a bit on the next 8k sessions.

* Week 10 Day 1 [9500m]

2:30 splits as always for these longer SS-sessions. And just like previous times, my average heart rate stayed more or less the same nevertheless the increasing distance.

* Week 10 Day 2 [3 x 2000m / 4min rest] – Look back to week 6 when you last did this session, with a similar session in week 8. Go for a pace 1 second faster than you did in week 6, and faster still for the last rep if you can.

My pace in week 6 was 2:13, but since I achieved a much faster pace during the last interval sessions, I aimed for 2:10.
Result: 2 reps at 2:10 and the last rep at 2:07.25.

Enjoying the newbie gains as long as they last!

[Nomark]

Having to slow down and spread week 5 over to weeks having only completed 1 main and 1 optional row last week. On to week 5.3. Another 7k steady state row, although I took it a bit fast for "reasons". Shaved a minute off last week's time. Not sure why. A mixture of the "are we training too easy" thread, ego, curiosity, frustration at not being on the erg much the last couple of weeks and the appeal of a challenge. It was tough to stick it out but not unbearable and pleased with the low stroke rate. Heart rate felt like it was high, but I finished strong. Feeling back to normal now so on with the interval training next.

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Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	S/M		
31:30.4 7,000m	2:15.0	142	17
6:23.0  1,400m	2:16.7	137	20
6:14.4	1,400m	2:13.7	146	18
6:16.0	1,400m	2:14.2	145	17
6:22.3	1,400m	2:16.5	138	17
6:14.7	1,400m	2:13.8	146	16

[Joris]

It was tough to stick it out but not unbearable and pleased with the low stroke rate. Heart rate felt like it was high, but I finished strong. Feeling back to normal now so on with the interval training next.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	S/M		
31:30.4 7,000m	2:15.0	142	17
6:23.0  1,400m	2:16.7	137	20
6:14.4	1,400m	2:13.7	146	18
6:16.0	1,400m	2:14.2	145	17
6:22.3	1,400m	2:16.5	138	17
6:14.7	1,400m	2:13.8	146	16

Impressive how you can achieve 2:15 already on a 7k session. And, especially with such a low stroke rate.
I did another 8k session yesterday, reducing my split time with another second to 2:27.
And even though the gap between my SS-pace and my interval pace is still huge, I see my heart rate increase quickly after increasing my SS-pace only slightly. So for now, I continue to increase my SS pace only sporadically and cautiously, focusing mainly on the interval sessions.

... meantime, already looking forward to your new interval times.

[Nomark]

My pace in week 6 was 2:13, but since I achieved a much faster pace during the last interval sessions, I aimed for 2:10.
Result: 2 reps at 2:10 and the last rep at 2:07.25.

Enjoying the newbie gains as long as they last!

That's a huge gain, well done. 6 seconds is great.

Impressive how you can achieve 2:15 already on a 7k session. And, especially with such a low stroke rate.
I did another 8k session yesterday, reducing my split time with another second to 2:27.
And even though the gap between my SS-pace and my interval pace is still huge, I see my heart rate increase quickly after increasing my SS-pace only slightly. So for now, I continue to increase my SS pace only sporadically and cautiously, focusing mainly on the interval sessions.

... meantime, already looking forward to your new interval times.

Well like I said, I 'cheated'. No way that 2:15 was my steady state. It was somewhere between time trial pace and SS. I think I need a chest HR monitor because my Fitbit is very unreliable. I think it said my HR was 130 but I don't believe it. I think 2:20ish is probably my true SS pace. But our gains should be on the intervals like you did, not on SS pieces, although it's nice to eventually see HR coming down and pace going up for the same perceived effort on the long rows. Although the more I read about long rows and UT1 and AN, the more it seems like everyone has an opinion so as long as you do the metres, it doesn't matter how fast they are!

Speaking of which, earlier today I did Week 5.2 800m X4 with a 2m rest. Pete said aim for the 3x1,000m time from week 4 which was 2:00.7 for me. Managed to drop the average by a second so happy with the result Next intervals will hopefully all be at sub 2:00.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	S/M		
12:46.1 3,200m	1:59.7	204	23
3:12.0  800m	2:00.0	203	24
3:12.5	800m	2:00.3	201	22
3:12.0	800m	2:00.0	203	22
3:09.6	800m	1:58.5	210	24

I wasn't happy with my stroke rate though which needs to be higher. I was holding back the rate in the first 3 to keep my splits at 2:00 without deliberately weakening my power per stroke but then couldn't up it on the last rep as much as I would have liked to. But I was happy with my stroke quality. In the last rep my pace graph almost exactly matched my stroke rate graph which means my stroke was consistent even if my rate wasn't. Managed to pull in the low 1:40s for a power 10 at about 30/31 strokes/min. Just need to build up my cardio to maintain it, because I also dipped to 2:06 at SR 19 in the middle.

Getting close to 9W/ stroke which I think is good. But the more I read the more I confuse myself. My understanding is that Im supposed to keep the stroke power the same and control speed by varying stroke rate. But if I have a 9W stroke and a Steady state of around 130-140W does that mean I have to have a SR of 14-15 because that seems awfully slow. But any more than that and I think the pace will be too fast for me - like yesterday. Oh well, it keeps it interesting!

[PleaseLockIn]

My pace in week 6 was 2:13, but since I achieved a much faster pace during the last interval sessions, I aimed for 2:10.
Result: 2 reps at 2:10 and the last rep at 2:07.25.

Enjoying the newbie gains as long as they last!

That's a huge gain, well done. 6 seconds is great.

Impressive how you can achieve 2:15 already on a 7k session. And, especially with such a low stroke rate.
I did another 8k session yesterday, reducing my split time with another second to 2:27.
And even though the gap between my SS-pace and my interval pace is still huge, I see my heart rate increase quickly after increasing my SS-pace only slightly. So for now, I continue to increase my SS pace only sporadically and cautiously, focusing mainly on the interval sessions.

... meantime, already looking forward to your new interval times.

Well like I said, I 'cheated'. No way that 2:15 was my steady state. It was somewhere between time trial pace and SS. I think I need a chest HR monitor because my Fitbit is very unreliable. I think it said my HR was 130 but I don't believe it. I think 2:20ish is probably my true SS pace. But our gains should be on the intervals like you did, not on SS pieces, although it's nice to eventually see HR coming down and pace going up for the same perceived effort on the long rows. Although the more I read about long rows and UT1 and AN, the more it seems like everyone has an opinion so as long as you do the metres, it doesn't matter how fast they are!

Speaking of which, earlier today I did Week 5.2 800m X4 with a 2m rest. Pete said aim for the 3x1,000m time from week 4 which was 2:00.7 for me. Managed to drop the average by a second so happy with the result Next intervals will hopefully all be at sub 2:00.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	S/M		
12:46.1 3,200m	1:59.7	204	23
3:12.0  800m	2:00.0	203	24
3:12.5	800m	2:00.3	201	22
3:12.0	800m	2:00.0	203	22
3:09.6	800m	1:58.5	210	24

I wasn't happy with my stroke rate though which needs to be higher. I was holding back the rate in the first 3 to keep my splits at 2:00 without deliberately weakening my power per stroke but then couldn't up it on the last rep as much as I would have liked to. But I was happy with my stroke quality. In the last rep my pace graph almost exactly matched my stroke rate graph which means my stroke was consistent even if my rate wasn't. Managed to pull in the low 1:40s for a power 10 at about 30/31 strokes/min. Just need to build up my cardio to maintain it, because I also dipped to 2:06 at SR 19 in the middle.

Getting close to 9W/ stroke which I think is good. But the more I read the more I confuse myself. My understanding is that Im supposed to keep the stroke power the same and control speed by varying stroke rate. But if I have a 9W stroke and a Steady state of around 130-140W does that mean I have to have a SR of 14-15 because that seems awfully slow. But any more than that and I think the pace will be too fast for me - like yesterday. Oh well, it keeps it interesting!

I would use (https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum ... calculator) to calculate the heart rate bands. As for HR, I count the beats in 10 seconds immediately after the rows, while still applying good pressure to keep the HR up, as a slight underestimate of my ending HR.

I use the HR right after my warmup (beats in 10s) as a small underestimate of my starting HR for the rows.

You do need to find your max HR though, which you could find by a very hard interval (mine is ~216 as I found out doing Wk 1 Day 2 of the full PP5k), and the resting (mine is high 40s)

I would rather reduce the pace and concentrate on keeping HR low in the SS, as to not impact recovery too much. This is important especially for the full Pete Plan. I started my SS at 2:19.6 and while it is fine-ish on decent days, sometimes there are days like now where the skin broke in my hands. It was painful enough I stopped early and switched to jogging to attempt to cover the remaining meters.

After Wk5 my LP was 1:44 at a 31SR so I seem to be trailing you by ~3s.

In my experience what I did was keep the SS at a higher stroke rate (like 20) and HR low, even if pace didn't increase much. This got me more used to higher stroke rates (Especially as my CV was lagging somewhat behind my strength).

I would focus significantly more on intervals and for SS simply recovery.

If you really wanted to... you could jump into the PP early but be warned it will be a gigantic step up. (In my case it was quite necessary because of my time frame, my own fault for procrastinating)

[iain]

12:46.1 3,200m 1:59.7 204 23

I wasn't happy with my stroke rate though which needs to be higher. I was holding back the rate in the first 3 to keep my splits at 2:00 without deliberately weakening my power per stroke but then couldn't up it on the last rep as much as I would have liked to. But I was happy with my stroke quality. In the last rep my pace graph almost exactly matched my stroke rate graph which means my stroke was consistent even if my rate wasn't. Managed to pull in the low 1:40s for a power 10 at about 30/31 strokes/min. Just need to build up my cardio to maintain it, because I also dipped to 2:06 at SR 19 in the middle.

Getting close to 9W/ stroke which I think is good. But the more I read the more I confuse myself. My understanding is that Im supposed to keep the stroke power the same and control speed by varying stroke rate. But if I have a 9W stroke and a Steady state of around 130-140W does that mean I have to have a SR of 14-15 because that seems awfully slow. But any more than that and I think the pace will be too fast for me - like yesterday. Oh well, it keeps it interesting!

You should try and maintain a strong stroke, but doesn't have to be the same SPI. For SS you are looking for a comfortable stroke that is good quality but minimises your HR at the given pace. If you want to maximise your 2k (and the BPP is a 2k plan after all), then you will need to rate up considerably. I find Pete's suggestion of 22-24 too high for me and tend to use 17-19, it is difficult to row at R15 with a smooth stroke and no pauses. I would suggest that you vary the stroke rate to find what works best for you at the moment.

[p_b82]

Getting close to 9W/ stroke which I think is good. But the more I read the more I confuse myself. My understanding is that Im supposed to keep the stroke power the same and control speed by varying stroke rate. But if I have a 9W stroke and a Steady state of around 130-140W does that mean I have to have a SR of 14-15 because that seems awfully slow. But any more than that and I think the pace will be too fast for me - like yesterday. Oh well, it keeps it interesting!

I'm no coach, and there's more than one school of thought here - some say always do the same work per stroke and just get fitter; others say drop the work per stroke to keep HR in the right place; and some both....

I found that r23 was my Cardio/strength sweetspot - over a few different paces I'd do a piece a few times (to allow for some variation normalisation) at different rates and found that r23 my Hr was the lowest peak & average enough times for it to be statistically significant.

I personally struggle to drop down to below r19 without putting pauses in my stroke so 19/20 is about as low as I go rate wise.

I don't think it really matters what your Wmin rating is in the steadies, as long as you are able maintain form and increase it and/or the rate as needed in the faster pieces

I did a whole load of 200wr20 training last year to get a sub 8 2k - because I needed to focus on my stroke - as a result I *can* row at 10/11Wmin and it translates as I rated up too - my 500m pb is average at ~10.3Wmin@r41(.3); but my steadies are often only around 6-7Wmin.

[Nomark]

I would focus significantly more on intervals and for SS simply recovery.

If you really wanted to... you could jump into the PP early but be warned it will be a gigantic step up. (In my case it was quite necessary because of my time frame, my own fault for procrastinating)

Yes I think I will try and do that with very hard intervals and relatively easy SS. I have been trying to do that but I have to fight the ego urge to push my SS rows a little quicker each week. I should just be happy that they are getting longer but brains are funny things! I think I will stick with the beginner plan. From what I have read I am definitely not ready to jump up yet.

You should try and maintain a strong stroke, but doesn't have to be the same SPI. For SS you are looking for a comfortable stroke that is good quality but minimises your HR at the given pace. If you want to maximise your 2k (and the BPP is a 2k plan after all), then you will need to rate up considerably. I find Pete's suggestion of 22-24 too high for me and tend to use 17-19, it is difficult to row at R15 with a smooth stroke and no pauses. I would suggest that you vary the stroke rate to find what works best for you at the moment.

I'm no coach, and there's more than one school of thought here - some say always do the same work per stroke and just get fitter; others say drop the work per stroke to keep HR in the right place; and some both....

I found that r23 was my Cardio/strength sweetspot - over a few different paces I'd do a piece a few times (to allow for some variation normalisation) at different rates and found that r23 my Hr was the lowest peak & average enough times for it to be statistically significant.

I personally struggle to drop down to below r19 without putting pauses in my stroke so 19/20 is about as low as I go rate wise.

I don't think it really matters what your Wmin rating is in the steadies, as long as you are able maintain form and increase it and/or the rate as needed in the faster pieces

I did a whole load of 200wr20 training last year to get a sub 8 2k - because I needed to focus on my stroke - as a result I *can* row at 10/11Wmin and it translates as I rated up too - my 500m pb is average at ~10.3Wmin@r41(.3); but my steadies are often only around 6-7Wmin.

Thanks for the tips and guidance. It shows how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing lol

That makes much more sense that working on a powerful stroke for TTs is separate from steady state rows which should still have good technique but without the same explosiveness and drive to keep HR down. I was finding with my slow, hard stroke the other day that I was almost pausing mid-stroke to keep the effort down, which I knew meant I was doing something wrong but couldn't work out what.

I had a SS row today and found a good stroke to better work my CV system at about 22/23. So, on to my hybrid week... Week 6.1 7.5k SS - after my illness shortened week last week I couldn't complete Week 5 until yesterday, some 3 days "late". I toyed with whether to do one of the optional rows but I felt like doing more than 20 minutes so decided to skip to Week 6, 3 days late/4 days early depending on how you look at it.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	S/M		
34:55.7 7,500m	2:19.7	128	23
7:03.3  1500m	2:20.1	127	22
7:03.0	1500m	2:20.0	128	22
7:03.3  1500m	2:20.1	127	23
6:59.7	1500m	2:19.9	128	24
6:55.5	1500m	2:18.5	132	24
HR 148

It was quite a tough workout honestly. More mentally than physically. I still find doing distances I haven't done before a little daunting even though I know it's only 500m. Probably also physically from the rating up since I'd got into a bad habit of slow and (relatively!) powerful strokes, this was definitely harder on the heart rate. But I'm glad I did it and will adapt to this way mostly going forward as my CV system needs to get better. Coincidentally (or not) this was exactly the same split time (2:19.7) as I did on my first 7k last week so maybe I've found my speed sweet spot. It didn't feel as consistent as it looked with splits ranging from 2:15-2:25, but overall came out very consistent on the splits. I don't know if this is normal or if experience leads to rowing like a robot with a consistent split on every stroke. Another thing to keep an eye on. I might try the next one as a blind row, without looking at splits and go on perceived effort, just to see what happens with the time.

Intervals tomorrow - 3x2,000m. Last interval at this distance was only 2 intervals, but the guidance said to go at SS pace which I found far too easy and sped up the second one considerably ( 2.19.9 & 2:07.4 - 2:13.7 avg). Not sure what to aim for. Might try 2:10 and see what happens....

[Joris]

* Week 10 Day 4 [8000m]

Rowed at a 2:27 pace like the other 8k session this week.

* Week 10 Day 5 [7 x 500m / 2min rest] – Look back to week 7 when you last tried this session. Aim to row the first 6 reps at the same average pace you managed last time, and then go faster for the final rep.

In week 7 I rowed 5 x 2:02 + final rep at 1:55. Since there was a wide gap between the last rep and the other reps, I aimed for a faster pace of 1:59 this time.

Result:

• 1:58.67
  1:59:24
  1:59.00
  1:58.84
  1:58.96
  1:59.78
  1:55.20

So after the 4 x 800m, this was my second interval session to go below 2:00. Up to the next one.

Since this closes week 10 for me, I will be doing my first 10k SS-session soon during week 11. Another milestone coming up.