Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[PleaseLockIn]

Personally I find it hard to maintain the quality of strokes at the lower work per stroke as I can leak power but still produced what is required so it doesn't show up on the monitor. I appreciate that using the force curve will highlight many errors, so maybe you use this more than pace to identify poor strokes?

In short if it was me I would vary the pace as well as the rating (as in L4 workouts in the Wolverine Plan). I sometimes use this to shift to a faster pace on my SS following fitness gains, rather than doing the whole maybe 0.5S/500m faster, I will introduce a section 1-2SpM faster than usual at a commensurately faster pace with the rest as before so getting used to the faster pace for SS without having to do it for a whole session.

Thanks for the guidance and suggestions.
I sometimes feel like I'm pausing before the drive or slowing down my legs in order to keep the times down. I guess it's something that comes with experience rather than clock watching. It sounds a bit like you describe , like I'm leaking power at the slower rates, albeit deliberately. I'll do my next row ignoring the splits and concentrating on the force curve. I have done it before and generally get a pretty good curve but I can imagine limiting my force and SR probably messes it up which isn't a good habit to get into.

I see what you mean about the two ways of correlating power and SR. I was definitely rowing light with the higher SR in the (mistaken) belief that I should keep my splits consistent. Lesson learned - I was just playing around with SRs but probably messed up my stroke while doing so in order to keep a consistent pace!

I like the idea of gently introducing a quicker SS 1 interval at a time, so next time I speed up I will just keep it natural and let the splits fall where they may

I tend to agree with you - we should work on the technique of every stroke first so this is in our muscle memory. In this way we do not ingrain any bad habits.

Week 4 Day 5 - [2x2500m /2min rest]

I felt as when I did the first in 2:14.0 split at r21 I sometimes deliberately slowed down parts of the stroke, that messed my timings up. The second one at 2:12.1 split at r21 was much more natural and I could see the technique improvement. The 2nd interval taught me how to remain disciplined at all odds and keep the pace.

I increased the intensity to saying a bit more than a few words (UT1/AT) though maybe for long intervals it should be AT and short ones above. I need a heart monitor...

But yeah, those technique gains will serve me well in the future. The low rate training has also increased my stroke efficiency and power.

I feel like with your strength and your goals, you could settle into a lower stroke rate to get the most out of every stroke. Maybe gently introduce a quicker SS for 0.5s or 1s just to be a bit conservative.

At this point it is only a matter of weeks at most before your short intervals are sub 2:00 and your SS is sub 2:20.

As for my plans I will try my best to hold 2:18 SS r17-r18 for 7000m without straining hard. For my interval, I will try 2:05 or even sub 2:05. But man... training rowing 5x a week is tiring. I'll stick to something more sustainable and cross-train just to avoid any burnout, for next week.

[Joris]

Week 8 Day 2 [4 x 1500m / 3min rest] – If you did the optional session last week you’ll have a good idea how to pace this one. If not, aim for the same pace as you did the 2000m reps in week 6. See if you can go slightly faster on the 4th rep – although there are 4 reps this week, the total distance is still 6000m.

My pace on the 2000m reps in week 6 was 2:13 while on the optional session last week (3 x 1.500m) was 2:07, 2:07 and 2:06.
I decided to put the bar high for myself, aiming for the same pace as during the 3 x 1.500m last week although this time I had to do an extra rep and that last session already felt like a very hard one.

But I felt good today, gave it a go, and managed to succeed (3 x 2:07) + last rep at 2:06 again.
Stroke rate was 24.4 during the first rep and slightly increased until 26.2 during the last rep.

Felt very happy with this result.
The next interval sessions are 3 x 1k and 4 x 800m, which sound very easy after just having done 4 x 1.500m.
Perhaps splits under two minutes might enter the picture for the first time.

[Joris]

Week 4 Day 5 - [2x2500m /2min rest]
I increased the intensity to saying a bit more than a few words (UT1/AT) though maybe for long intervals it should be AT and short ones above. I need a heart monitor...

I find it hard as well to judge how to pace those day 5 sessions.
To me it seems that Pete suggests rather slow pacings on these sessions because it's the fifth session of the week and he wants to avoid burnout?
For me personally, since I do all the sessions, but not necessarily within one week (last weeks I've done about 4 sessions a week), I do interpret it as a real interval session though.

But man... training rowing 5x a week is tiring. I'll stick to something more sustainable and cross-train just to avoid any burnout, for next week.

Maybe you should diminish the number of weekly sessions indeed if it feels to tiring. Or take it a bit easier on the steady state sessions?
Not saying my strategy is better since I'm a novice too, but my steady state sessions are much slower than yours and still it seems that my splits during interval sessions tend to improve quickly. And being in week 8 now, I haven't yet had a session I was up against because of feeling tired.
And yes, getting a heart rate monitor sounds like a good idea to have a more accurate idea about in what zones you are doing your training sessions.

[iain]

Week 8 Day 2 [4 x 1500m / 3min rest] – If you did the optional session last week you’ll have a good idea how to pace this one. If not, aim for the same pace as you did the 2000m reps in week 6. See if you can go slightly faster on the 4th rep – although there are 4 reps this week, the total distance is still 6000m.

But I felt good today, gave it a go, and managed to succeed (3 x 2:07) + last rep at 2:06 again.
Stroke rate was 24.4 during the first rep and slightly increased until 26.2 during the last rep.

Felt very happy with this result.
The next interval sessions are 3 x 1k and 4 x 800m, which sound very easy after just having done 4 x 1.500m.
Perhaps splits under two minutes might enter the picture for the first time.

You should be significantly quicker on 1ks and 800s, but 1k is deceptively long so I would suggest maybe 4S/500m faster for the first 2 and then give it everything on the last, then judge the 800s based on how the 1ks went. The full 4 x 1k with long rests (4min+) is the closest interval session I know to a 2k with part of each 1k feeling like each 500 of the 2k, so basically very nasty! So think of 3 x 1k as like a 2k without the 3rd 500 "Deadzone".

[Nomark]

Week 3, optional session 1 - 5k at 6k pace with the last 1k sped up if possible.

After all the toing and froing on SS pace I decided just to row at a comfortable pace without clock watching and see where I ended up. Watched the force curve which was fun Took "speed up the last 1k" a little too literally but felt fine at the end so all good. 6x500 splits on Sunday.

Code: Select all

Metres  Time	Pace	Watts	S/M	
5,000m	23:21.4	2:20.1	127     24
1,000m	4:44.5 	2:22.2	122     24
1,000m	4:39.3	2:19.6	129     24
1,000m	4:40.9	2:20.4	126     24
1,000m	4:45.6	2:22.8	120     23
1,000m	4:31.2	2:15.6	140     25
DF 128
HR 146

[Joris]

* Week 8 Day 3 [8000m]
* Week 8 Day 4 [25min]

As planned I rowed the 'shorter' steady state distances a bit faster than my usual 2:30 splits. The 8k at 2:28 and the 25 minutes session at 2:20.
Both sessions went well, but my heart rate was significantly higher (143 and 151) than usual (around 135).
It's funny though how those sessions felt relatively 'short', only because i've rowed a longer ss-session of 8,5k before.

* Week 8 Day 5 [3 x 1k / 3min rest] – See if you can row this at the same pace as the 7 x 500m last week. Start to notice the stroke rate on these interval sessions too now, and how it compares to the (slower paced) single distance or time sessions.

Managed to do the first two reps at a target rate of 2:03 (sr 25) and finished with a final rep of 2:01 (sr 27).

Up to week 9!

[Nomark]

For further improvement, I might have to focus some more on my stroke rate since I could 'only' get it up to 24,5 (first two reps) or 25,5 (last rep) That seems much slower than others do at these kind of distances

I am having the same issue. I think because we are doing so many SS metres at low rates our muscle memory is a bit confused when we ask it to speed up because I had no problem with a SR of 30 before I started but now it feels rushed. I think it will come with experience. In my case I can feel my strokes have gotten technically better and stronger and I'm not sure if my body can deliver that power at higher rates for long enough yet.

Both sessions went well, but my heart rate was significantly higher (143 and 151) than usual (around 135).
It's funny though how those sessions felt relatively 'short', only because i've rowed a longer ss-session of 8,5k before.

Are you sure you aren't coming down with something? I had a small virus/ cold over the weekend and my Fitbit could tell based on my resting HR and breaths/ minute which shocked me a little! I took the weekend off and just doing SS today and tomorrow to give myself a break.

I know what you mean about the "shorter" sessions. I had the same feeling with the 5k last week after two 6ks. Like it felt unfinished lol

* Week 8 Day 5 [3 x 1k / 3min rest]

Managed to do the first two reps at a target rate of 2:03 (sr 25) and finished with a final rep of 2:01 (sr 27).

Sounds like you found the perfect pace with the last one being quicker but not 1.55 again. Well done, you'll be sub 2minutes soon!

[Dangerscouse]

I am having the same issue. I think because we are doing so many SS metres at low rates our muscle memory is a bit confused when we ask it to speed up because I had no problem with a SR of 30 before I started but now it feels rushed. I think it will come with experience. In my case I can feel my strokes have gotten technically better and stronger and I'm not sure if my body can deliver that power at higher rates for long enough yet.

Stroke rates can be a bit like spinning plates. When you focus on lower rates, the higher rates suffer and vice versa, so that's why I think it's always important to continually use the full range, which could be as low as r18 and up to r30-32.

They all target different types of effort and confidence, so you, theoretically at least, feel capable of coping with them. Admittedly when you're knee deep in it, it doesn't feel like too much consolation!

For you specifically, I'd recommend either doing rate ladders in one session, or doing more mid-range (r24-26) grey zone sessions. Exposure and adaptation to these will help rewire your brain so your confidence is more prominent when it inevitably starts to hurt in the harder sessions

[p_b82]

I am having the same issue. I think because we are doing so many SS metres at low rates our muscle memory is a bit confused when we ask it to speed up because I had no problem with a SR of 30 before I started but now it feels rushed. I think it will come with experience. In my case I can feel my strokes have gotten technically better and stronger and I'm not sure if my body can deliver that power at higher rates for long enough yet.

Stroke rates can be a bit like spinning plates. When you focus on lower rates, the higher rates suffer and vice versa, so that's why I think it's always important to continually use the full range, which could be as low as r18 and up to r30-32.

They all target different types of effort and confidence, so you, theoretically at least, feel capable of coping with them. Admittedly when you're knee deep in it, it doesn't feel like too much consolation!

For you specifically, I'd recommend either doing rate ladders in one session, or doing more mid-range (r24-26) grey zone sessions. Exposure and adaptation to these will help rewire your brain so your confidence is more prominent when it inevitably starts to hurt in the harder sessions

I really like the VO2 max sessions from the FM training plan for this - supposed to be with 1' rest, but I did them without & I flipped them so slower first as my warm up & ended on a slower piece as the cool down.

i used the rating in the 5k's paced parts at 28ish and back down to 20-23 range for the Marathon paced parts

3 x Alternate (1,000m @ 5kP/2,000m @ MP) or 3 x Alternate (1,500m @ 5kP/2,000m @ MP).

threw in the odd 2k paced 750m instead of the 5k part if I wanted some more rate variation.

[Joris]

Both sessions went well, but my heart rate was significantly higher (143 and 151) than usual (around 135).
It's funny though how those sessions felt relatively 'short', only because i've rowed a longer ss-session of 8,5k before.

Are you sure you aren't coming down with something? I had a small virus/ cold over the weekend and my Fitbit could tell based on my resting HR and breaths/ minute which shocked me a little! I took the weekend off and just doing SS today and tomorrow to give myself a break.

I think it's just a matter of my fitness level which can't handle a faster pace yet, without a significant increase in heart rate.
It's a similar increase to what I have experienced before when going faster.
Nevertheless, I didn't feel completely exhausted neither after these sessions, so I probably continue to vary my pace on the SS-sessions, according to the distances.

* Week 8 Day 5 [3 x 1k / 3min rest]

Managed to do the first two reps at a target rate of 2:03 (sr 25) and finished with a final rep of 2:01 (sr 27).

Sounds like you found the perfect pace with the last one being quicker but not 1.55 again. Well done, you'll be sub 2minutes soon!

Yes I think this was the right pace.
After my last interval session (4 x 1.5k at 2:07) I thought for a moment to aim for a split just below 2:00, but Iain rightly suggested me to 'only' decrease the split by about 4 seconds. I'm glad to have followed his advice, so I didn't fly and die during the session.

[PleaseLockIn]

Week 5 Day 1 [7000m]
32:15.x at r18. ~2:18.3 split, conversational pace (albeit in the end a little difficult to hold one).

~132.5W average, and my dehydrated, hungry bodyweight is 65kg. I need to gain a bit more weight for a bit more speed gains. Just over 2W/kg steady stating at r18. Seems like a good pace for day 3. I am not going hard on this session, simply trying to build up my base, concentrate on technique and get a harder stroke. This will give me enough energy left for weight training afterwards.

Week 5 Day 2 [4 x 800m / 2min rest]
2:03.x r25, 2:03.x r25, 2:03.x r26, 2:01 r26

At the end I was barely hanging on for dear life. I simply closed my eyes and put as much effort as I could into the stroke. I flied and died a bit, holding 2:00 before dropping to 2:01-2:02 at the 4th interval. I could only say 1-2 words, AT pace or above.

Nomark suggested me to go sub 2:05 and boy he was right, I had enough to get an average of ~2:03 even though before I had a stomachache, and i was so bloated because i drank far too much water. Having the mental discipline to survive the pain cave paid off. I forgot to clean the rower which didn't help.

Analysis of the days
Day 1 was decent, 2:18 at R18. My leanback was a bit less than 11 o'clock though, which is somethng I need to fix. However, I need to row at r20 on trial day. I have ~2 months until trial day to get a 1:59.x 30r20. The specific days will be announced later... but I need to push through.

I think I could get away with 10'45 leanback and not get penalised for this.

Day 2 was surprisingly decent. But I need to clean the rower. With about 2 months until test day, I need every little bit I can get to reach the goal. Nevertheless, average 2:03 at r25-26 is a bit under 7.5Wmin. This is still a mediocre stroke. I need to get something over 10Wmin.

It seems the SS vs interval distance is a bit over 15 seconds for me. I feel if I close my eyes and let it go through, with very loud intense battle music, I could reach max intensity.

Future goals
Wk 5 Day 3 - hold a 2:18.2 split at r18, 7000m. Then I will be able to beat my baseline 5k before the BPP while having a stroke rate of 18.

Wk 7 - This may be too ambitious... but if I can increase a bit my stroke rate and mentally hold myself together at all odds even if I have to scream and grunt my way...
I might just be able to manage 1:59.x-2:00 on day 2 and add one more interval.

8x500 with 2min rest is approximately 2k max pace anyways, so maybe just maybein Wk 7 i mighthave the shape to go sub 8 2k.

Wk 10 - Try to keep my split at 2:18 while going for at least 9500m. It's a bit ambitious, but... sub 46:00 10k at r18? It's still not a great time but... it's great motivation and besides i need the motivation to keep going...

[iain]

P_B82, I don't think 5k pace is VO2 max, more like threshold, although 2k pace is about VO2 max I would be surprised if you could hold it for 6' 4 times with the FM rowing as well!

Joris, if you are to maintain 10WMin, you need to know what it takes so you know what you are aiming at if you are serious about achieving this. Continuing as you are may get it up a bit, but you need to do something more radical to stand a chance of meeting your goal in your timescale. I find that I can manage 3 breaths per stroke at all out R20. Also at restricted rate / max power I find drag can limit what I can achieve. What is best is very personal, some prefer lower drag so that they don't need to accelerate the flywheel so much at the start of the stroke (ie have higher resistance through leg drive) while others prefer high drag so that they are not limited by the speed required to add work. Naturally many fall between as they need to balance these factors. I suggest that you try short bursts of max power at modest rates maybe at the start of your cooldown. Your stroke producing similar work per stroke as mine at present. I can hold >10WMin for short bursts but not maintain it for anything close to 20min.

Finally, there is a world of difference between short and long intervals (broadly between VO2 max and threshold), so you need to be more modest on the speed for longer interval sessions while 500s can be done at a higher rating and so significantly above 800m intervals.

[PleaseLockIn]

P_B82, I don't think 5k pace is VO2 max, more like threshold, although 2k pace is about VO2 max I would be surprised if you could hold it for 6' 4 times with the FM rowing as well!

Joris, if you are to maintain 10WMin, you need to know what it takes so you know what you are aiming at if you are serious about achieving this. Continuing as you are may get it up a bit, but you need to do something more radical to stand a chance of meeting your goal in your timescale. I find that I can manage 3 breaths per stroke at all out R20. Also at restricted rate / max power I find drag can limit what I can achieve. What is best is very personal, some prefer lower drag so that they don't need to accelerate the flywheel so much at the start of the stroke (ie have higher resistance through leg drive) while others prefer high drag so that they are not limited by the speed required to add work. Naturally many fall between as they need to balance these factors. I suggest that you try short bursts of max power at modest rates maybe at the start of your cooldown. Your stroke producing similar work per stroke as mine at present. I can hold >10WMin for short bursts but not maintain it for anything close to 20min.

Finally, there is a world of difference between short and long intervals (broadly between VO2 max and threshold), so you need to be more modest on the speed for longer interval sessions while 500s can be done at a higher rating and so significantly above 800m intervals.

First of all... I am PleaseLockIn, not Joris, but I know the main paragraph is applying to me.

My rower is at setting 4, but I am considering lowering it to 3 as I find I do a bit better with lower drag rates. Unfortunately, the trials have the drag factor in C2 set to 105 ...

So tomorrow, I try max power intervals after my 7k at r20? I see. I will try my best to hold >10WMin. Any targets I can aim for?

In that case, I will try to hang on for dear life with a 1:59.x 500m pace in week 7, day 2, and add an interval to make it a 2k predictor.

[p_b82]

P_B82, I don't think 5k pace is VO2 max, more like threshold, although 2k pace is about VO2 max I would be surprised if you could hold it for 6' 4 times with the FM rowing as well!

Lifted right out of the c2_training_v2 guide - page 102 the 80k week one wk 23 of 26.
I didn't do the wk 22 4 x Alternate (1,500m @ 5kP/2,000m @ MP) sessions - I had to compress my run into the marathon due to the back injury; so my max distance in a week was ~63k; so i used the 60k week volume as my guide. (and I did them "properly" with the high pace into low as it turns out, my memory was wrong)
HR was hitting the 180's over the short higher paced parts in the final 5k intervals - I did 3 variations of them apparently, 9k, 10k & 12k.

LT sessions are overall slower paced in the guide:
Day 3 - 12,000m,LT, 4,000m @ MP/4,000m @ 10kP/4,000m @ HMP

They are 9-15k distance range - I didn't do any though.

[p_b82]

My rower is at setting 4, but I am considering lowering it to 3 as I find I do a bit better with lower drag rates. Unfortunately, the trials have the drag factor in C2 set to 105 ...

On the PM5 you can set the DragFactor before you start your workouts - the lever position just creates the DF; it's higher or lower depending on the state of the erg and any localised airflow restrictions.

If you have to do your test at 105; I'd suggest you row at that DF in training now on your rate capped pieces - it will help you get used to the feel of the stroke. on the longer goes - esp as you ramp up the Wmin towards your end goal.