New Personal Best! Brag About That New Pb!

[Jbrown1215]

Very strong PBs Justin, and I don't have a clue what the secret is but I've also had great success with doing tough sessions on consecutive days, but I suppose the issue is that I'll never know if I could have gone faster.

Wow, top pacing that, well done.

Unreal and yet so real.... .....awesome job!

Always impressed and always inspired with your times.

Thanks everyone. It's been very satisfying to see the training volume pay off. Feeling blessed to still be injury-free! Ironically, over these last few months my back has actually felt the best it has in years... in my college days I was constantly managing through lower back pain, no idea why nearly 20 years later my back would actually feel better, despite much greater overall erg mileage. Might have been the asymmetric nature of sweep rowing that did it, who knows?

On that note, there is a chance that I will be racing at the Head of the Charles in the masters 40+ category... I've recently gotten stuck in with a master's crew and now have 3 practices with them under my belt. Nowhere near enough boat time to feel confident in my racing ability, but am hoping I can cobble together at least a few more on-water sessions between now and mid-October to help me get my rhythm and tempo back, and then maybe earn my seat in the lineup. The fitness is where it needs to be, but the boat feel certainly is not!

Brilliant work Justin, just when I think I'm getting to some decent times, you bring a reality check

6:23.4 2,000m 1:35.8 397 1667 31
1:35.8 500m 1:35.8 398 1670 33
1:35.9 1,000m 1:35.9 397 1665 31
1:35.6 1,500m 1:35.6 401 1678 31
1:36.2 2,000m 1:36.2 393 1653 31

Was overdue a 2k test, felt there was a 6:24 on the cards. I was hanging on last 200 metres, lost half a second, but this is still a big win.

Added three seconds to my 1 minute yesterday for 368metres.

Saw this on IG, amazing PB! And well paced overall; those last couple hundred meters can go either way sometimes when you're pushing far into the red. With more interval work and consistent volume you'll nail the last 500 next time out, no doubt.

[Jbrown1215]

Just to clarify, that target pace range is only short term, as longer term you need to be considering sub 17.

That was my understanding, relative to Nick being sub 17 in similar 2k shape to what I am now. On reflection, it is some low hanging fruit I should make a big improvement on over 6-8 weeks.

Just to pile on here regarding target 5k time/pacing relative to 2k, I use a fairly simple rule of thumb for a few of the more popular time trial distances:

1k: 2k pace - ~3 seconds
5k: 2k pace + ~6 seconds, which as others have said should put you right around that sub-17 mark.
6k: 2k pace + ~7 seconds.
10k: 2k pace + ~10 seconds
60 min: 2k pace + ~13 seconds
Half marathon: 2k pace + ~14 seconds

Obviously these targets will differ slightly from one individual to the next depending on each person's bias towards shorter/power-based pieces or longer more endurance-based work. I've found though that throughout my rowing career these targets have been pretty accurate, +/- 1 second either way at most when I'm in good form.

[alex9026]

Just to pile on here regarding target 5k time/pacing relative to 2k, I use a fairly simple rule of thumb for a few of the more popular time trial distances:

1k: 2k pace - ~3 seconds
5k: 2k pace + ~6 seconds, which as others have said should put you right around that sub-17 mark.
6k: 2k pace + ~7 seconds.
10k: 2k pace + ~10 seconds
60 min: 2k pace + ~13 seconds
Half marathon: 2k pace + ~14 seconds

Obviously these targets will differ slightly from one individual to the next depending on each person's bias towards shorter/power-based pieces or longer more endurance-based work. I've found though that throughout my rowing career these targets have been pretty accurate, +/- 1 second either way at most when I'm in good form.

That's a useful little guide, thanks Justin. On the volume front, if approached sensibly, that could be my biggest drive. I was in my best 5k running shape training a marathon training block, I think the aerobic input is not to be underestimated, even for 17 minutes worth of work!

[HornetMaX]

1k: 2k pace - ~3 seconds
5k: 2k pace + ~6 seconds, which as others have said should put you right around that sub-17 mark.
6k: 2k pace + ~7 seconds.
10k: 2k pace + ~10 seconds
60 min: 2k pace + ~13 seconds
Half marathon: 2k pace + ~14 seconds

Totally different ballpark (fact I'm 50yo LW is only a partial excuse), but my PBs are mostly spot-on to your deltas, except my 1K:

Code: Select all

 1k: 03:26.9 @ 1:43.5 ==> 2KP - 6.2s 
 2k: 07:18.6 @ 149.7
 5k: 19:21.7 @ 1:56.2 ==> 2KP + 6.5s
10k: 39.48.5 @ 1:59.4 ==> 2KP + 9.7s
 HM: 86:04.6 @ 2:02:4 ==> 2KP + 12.7

[alex9026]

Totally different ballpark (fact I'm 50yo LW is only a partial excuse), but my PBs are mostly spot-on to your deltas, except my 1K:

Code: Select all

 1k: 03:26.9 @ 1:43.5 ==> 2KP - 6.2s 
 2k: 07:18.6 @ 149.7
 5k: 19:21.7 @ 1:56.2 ==> 2KP + 6.5s
10k: 39.48.5 @ 1:59.4 ==> 2KP + 9.7s
 HM: 86:04.6 @ 2:02:4 ==> 2KP + 12.7

It's okay, my 5k is completely out of sync! It certainly shows what can be worked on.

[Dangerscouse]

Just to pile on here regarding target 5k time/pacing relative to 2k, I use a fairly simple rule of thumb for a few of the more popular time trial distances:

1k: 2k pace - ~3 seconds
5k: 2k pace + ~6 seconds, which as others have said should put you right around that sub-17 mark.
6k: 2k pace + ~7 seconds.
10k: 2k pace + ~10 seconds
60 min: 2k pace + ~13 seconds
Half marathon: 2k pace + ~14 seconds

Obviously these targets will differ slightly from one individual to the next depending on each person's bias towards shorter/power-based pieces or longer more endurance-based work. I've found though that throughout my rowing career these targets have been pretty accurate, +/- 1 second either way at most when I'm in good form.

Whilst I agree that these are rough guides, they're not very comparable for me, and I'm not sure if it's because I was too random when I was on good form, i didn't properly commit to a 2k or something else entirely.

Admittedly, there's quite a big difference between say 2k + 4.1 and 4.9, so that might be part of the issue, but I'm a bit surprised that the HM and the 6k are the biggest outliers.

1k = 2k - 5
5k = 2k + 4 (but this needs to be considered in line with the 6k)
6k = 2k + 4
10k = 2k + 8
60 mins = 2k + 10
HM = 2k + 11

[HornetMaX]

Totally different ballpark (fact I'm 50yo LW is only a partial excuse), but my PBs are mostly spot-on to your deltas, except my 1K:

Code: Select all

 1k: 03:26.9 @ 1:43.5 ==> 2KP - 6.2s 
 2k: 07:18.6 @ 149.7
 5k: 19:21.7 @ 1:56.2 ==> 2KP + 6.5s
10k: 39.48.5 @ 1:59.4 ==> 2KP + 9.7s
 HM: 86:04.6 @ 2:02:4 ==> 2KP + 12.7

It's okay, my 5k is completely out of sync! It certainly shows what can be worked on.

Right. Next time I do a 1K I'm gonna do it slower, so that it aligns. Otherwise I'd have to improve my 2k, 5k, 10k and HM

[MPx]

Obviously these targets will differ slightly from one individual to the next depending on each person's bias towards shorter/power-based pieces or longer more endurance-based work.

Whilst I agree that these are rough guides, they're not very comparable for me,

I think we are examples of the outliers that Justin was taking about Stu. Fast as you are in the sprints, you are relatively much stronger as the distance increases so you get relative low deltas across the chart. I'm the other way, much stronger at the short stuff - eg my recent 1k was sub 1:39 pace whereas I'm struggling to do a 2k at 1:46 or worse - so a +7s for me on just that one. Current 5k around 1:53 so another 7s.... and so it goes on. Whereas going the other way, 500m is -10 or so from 1k.

Guides always helpful in setting context, but we all know that we're all different, so even more important to build up an understanding of what we can do as individuals.

[ahooton]

On that note, there is a chance that I will be racing at the Head of the Charles in the masters 40+ category... I've recently gotten stuck in with a master's crew and now have 3 practices with them under my belt. Nowhere near enough boat time to feel confident in my racing ability, but am hoping I can cobble together at least a few more on-water sessions between now and mid-October to help me get my rhythm and tempo back, and then maybe earn my seat in the lineup. The fitness is where it needs to be, but the boat feel certainly is not!

Please let us know how you get on mate. I’ve no doubt you’ll smash it.

I started otw just a month ago. All sculling a stable then fine single. Rowed an 8 for the first time on Saturday. I absolutely loved sweep. It’s so much easier than sculling and for the first time since starting I felt confident enough to really push it and give myself a workout comparable to erging!

I think that’s where my on the water focus will be!

[iain]

I started otw just a month ago. All sculling a stable then fine single. Rowed an 8 for the first time on Saturday. I absolutely loved sweep. It’s so much easier than sculling and for the first time since starting I felt confident enough to really push it and give myself a workout comparable to erging!

Is it just me, or has no-one else ever heard their position described as "8". Great that you can concentrate on getting a good workout this soon when stroking as many find feeling the rhythm and keeping consistent takes some getting used to.

[JPFlores]

Sub 40 10K for the first time since 2021. Really pleased with this.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
39:44.1 10,000m 1:59.2 207 1011 19
7:59.5 2,000m 1:59.8 203 999 19
7:55.5 4,000m 1:58.8 208 1017 19
7:56.2 6,000m 1:59.0 207 1013 19
7:56.2 8,000m 1:59.0 207 1013 19
7:56.6 10,000m 1:59.1 207 1012 19

[Dangerscouse]

Sub 40 10K for the first time since 2021. Really pleased with this.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
39:44.1 10,000m 1:59.2 207 1011 19
7:59.5 2,000m 1:59.8 203 999 19
7:55.5 4,000m 1:58.8 208 1017 19
7:56.2 6,000m 1:59.0 207 1013 19
7:56.2 8,000m 1:59.0 207 1013 19
7:56.6 10,000m 1:59.1 207 1012 19

Congratulations, but is r19 as high as you can manage? I'd be amazed if you weren't faster at a higher stroke rate

[JPFlores]

Sub 40 10K for the first time since 2021. Really pleased with this.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
39:44.1 10,000m 1:59.2 207 1011 19
7:59.5 2,000m 1:59.8 203 999 19
7:55.5 4,000m 1:58.8 208 1017 19
7:56.2 6,000m 1:59.0 207 1013 19
7:56.2 8,000m 1:59.0 207 1013 19
7:56.6 10,000m 1:59.1 207 1012 19

Congratulations, but is r19 as high as you can manage? I'd be amazed if you weren't faster at a higher stroke rate

I’m sure you’re right. R19-20 is a comfortable spot for me and I was being conservative. Have done some recent 10K’s where I started r23-24 and blew up about 7-8k in. That said, even on shorter stuff, my stroke rate is pretty low. For example, recently did 8x500 and my avg rate was 26. This is something I likely need to work on.

[Dangerscouse]

I’m sure you’re right. R19-20 is a comfortable spot for me and I was being conservative. Have done some recent 10K’s where I started r23-24 and blew up about 7-8k in. That said, even on shorter stuff, my stroke rate is pretty low. For example, recently did 8x500 and my avg rate was 26. This is something I likely need to work on.

That's good. This is probably low hanging fruit for you as your fitness improves and your stroke rate increases, so you'll have a great stretch of continuous improvement.

What was the pace when you blew up at r23/24? That could be the issue in addition to the stroke rate

[HornetMaX]

I’m sure you’re right. R19-20 is a comfortable spot for me and I was being conservative. Have done some recent 10K’s where I started r23-24 and blew up about 7-8k in. That said, even on shorter stuff, my stroke rate is pretty low. For example, recently did 8x500 and my avg rate was 26. This is something I likely need to work on.

That's good. This is probably low hanging fruit for you as your fitness improves and your stroke rate increases, so you'll have a great stretch of continuous improvement.

What was the pace when you blew up at r23/24? That could be the issue in addition to the stroke rate

Could it also be an unusual drag factor ? I think he didn't mention it (nor his weight class & height, if that matters too).