Achilles/peroneal tendonitis and other ankle woes: opinions and advice sought: dynamic, maybe?

[DelurkMode]

Hi all,

I've scanned the various posts here already.

Background: I'm in my 50s and inherited my father's flat feet. I have been subject to achilles and ankle problems my whole life. Cycling was where it started, running (stupidly given that cycling had made me develop it in the first place) did it again. I swam for a while which was fine due to the low impact, except I gave it away after a sinus operation and never got back into it mainly because I found it incredibly boring and coudn't bring myself to start again.

On and off, I had used a Concept2 static at the gym. I hadn't noticed any ankle issues.

More problems: I tore my left calf muscle last year in a freak thing when I broke into a run. My left leg is where the achilles tendonitis is the worst, and I am noticeably weaker on that leg. I am inflexible there.

When I recovered I bought myself a Concept2 static about 6 months ago. I eased into it well, and was soon doing 5-7 days a week, mainly static state of around 30 mins a day, nothing insane, but around a 2:15 - 2:20 pace at around 18 s/pm. All strapless and barefoot -- I much prefer the feel of no shoes and the discipline of rowing without straps. Everything was going well for about 2 months, and then one day I felt that familiar twinge in the left achilles. It was really disheartening, but I did some reading here, dropped the footplates to the lowest position and lowered the damper to 1 and concentrated on pushing with the heel and not lifting it all and not going fully up the slide. That seemed to help, even though I would feel twinges (not in the achilles, but more up the side of the leg and the ankle) and sometimes had swelling and heat afterwards more often on my right foot where the ankle foot meets the shin and a little to the side.

I eventually moved the footplates back up to 3 and increased the damper. I did notice more strain, but I stupidly pushed through, but a week ago had to face facts that I was doing damage when my right foot (which I think is doing more work given that I'm weak on the left) was constantly swelling and my left leg on the left side had a weird tweak that wasn't pain per se but more like some ligament or fascia closing and separating. I'm going to take a few weeks off and I've booked in to see a sports doctor who will I imagine give me strengthening exercises that I have not been good at following in the past.

My questions are:

1. Beyond the advice gleaned from other threads, does anyone have any other advice?
2. Does anyone have any thoughts on a dynamic for someone in my situation? I think the phase of moving up the slide and then quickly reversing puts a lot of stress on the problem areas. Does a dynamic mitigate against this to an extent?
3. Is my s/pm actually too low? Does the flywheel slowing down more mean I have to push more and put stress on my ankle area?

I'm reconciled to the possibility that I might not be able to row consecutive days, or in the worst case even row at all, which is pretty depressing. I understand that no one here can provide a silver bullet, but I'm particularly interested in if anyone has a similar experience and has used both a static and a dynamic.

Thanks in advance!

[p_b82]

I can't comment on the dynamic, but I'm sure the Dr will tell you to rest up until things are healed as part of your rehab.

So with that in mind, I'd suggest you try rowing one day on one day off and see if that helps when given the all clear.
I also play with higher rating - yes you'll be moving your legs/ankles more, but there will be a lower load through them - it might help.

Have you tried/considered ankle supports? - that may take some of the strain off the tendons/ligaments/joints - which may help to mitigate things as well.

None of this is medical advice - but hope you find a solution to your problems.

[Dangerscouse]

3. Is my s/pm actually too low? Does the flywheel slowing down more mean I have to push more and put stress on my ankle area?

I can't offer much advice, but I'd assume that a lower stroke rate will be a bit more of an issue for you. Increasing this to r20-22 will alleviate some pressure as it will lighten the stroke. However there's the trade off that you're doing more movement per minute though, so there's possibly a chance that it will be counter productive

[JaapvanE]

1. Beyond the advice gleaned from other threads, does anyone have any other advice?

You might take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3Y9WNfWnB4 She is a Physiotherapist (DPT) and her YouTube channel is specialized in discussing specific types of injury in combination with rowing. Her advice helped me a lot with my lower back issues.

[mict450]

First of all, welcome to the campfire.

I have a dynamic erg, though not a Concept2. I would urge you to try one before you buy. Intuitively, I think, you would subject your achilles to a lesser load than a static.

First, on the drive, you have to move your bodyweight, say, 175 lbs, 18 times a minute. Also, you have to deccelerate the momentum of your bodyweight twice during each stroke, at the finish & just before the catch.

I went to the dynamic because I have a touchy back. At 33 years of age, i suffered a severe back injury, that resulted in severe pain, sciatica, loss of mobility, muscle weakness & atrophy. I can say that my back feels better with the dynamic.

However, my achilles are fine, so could not say specifically whether it would help you. But on the dynamic, you would be pushing against just the weight of the foot stretchers and not your bodyweight and there is no need to expend any energy in killing your momentum.

[DelurkMode]

1. Beyond the advice gleaned from other threads, does anyone have any other advice?

You might take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3Y9WNfWnB4 She is a Physiotherapist (DPT) and her YouTube channel is specialized in discussing specific types of injury in combination with rowing. Her advice helped me a lot with my lower back issues.

Wow, thanks for that! Every problem that she mentioned, I have! The compression thing is definitely and issue. There's no way I can go full vertical with the shins, but I think we I try to get back on I need to compress even less.

Again, thanks.

[DelurkMode]

First of all, welcome to the campfire.

I have a dynamic erg, though not a Concept2. I would urge you to try one before you buy.

[...]

But on the dynamic, you would be pushing against just the weight of the foot stretchers and not your bodyweight and there is no need to expend any energy in killing your momentum.

I was thinking of giving slides a try, but then there is the weight of the machine to take into account. It would still be less than bodyweight, though.

[DelurkMode]

A general thanks to all who have replied. And if anyone else has any ideas, very happy to hear them!

[PaulG]

I have both a dynamic and static erg and I usually row on the dynamic due to back problems. It takes less force at the catch to accelerate the flywheel on the dynamic compared to the static because you are not accelerating your body weight. However, little of that force comes from the calf muscle and transmitted to the stretcher through the achilles tendon, unless you are rowing off your toes. As you said, the compressed position at the catch may be causing you problems.

As for slides, unless you have very good form, you are accelerating part of your body weight and the weight of the machine. In my experience it's easier to bounce around on slides than on the dynamic although your form gets better fairly quickly on slides.

I've had achilles tendon problems due to basketball and volleyball. I hate to say it but rest is the best thing.

[DelurkMode]

I have both a dynamic and static erg and I usually row on the dynamic due to back problems.

I did have a slight back problem prior to getting the erg, but the erg really seems to have helped it. That's one of the reasons why I don't want to give it up.

It takes less force at the catch to accelerate the flywheel on the dynamic compared to the static because you are not accelerating your body weight. However, little of that force comes from the calf muscle and transmitted to the stretcher through the achilles tendon, unless you are rowing off your toes. As you said, the compressed position at the catch may be causing you problems.

Yeah, have been trying to use heel only and not lifting the heel at all (which may in itself promote too much compression, but I wanted to be sure that I wasn't pushing from the ball/toes). When/if I get back on, I think I'll have to put a stop on the rail to make sure that I'm not even going up as far as I was, which I thought wasn't far. My ankle flex is pretty bad.

As an aside, on a dynamic, is it possible to row without straps? It doesn't look like it is.

As for slides, unless you have very good form, you are accelerating part of your body weight and the weight of the machine. In my experience it's easier to bounce around on slides than on the dynamic although your form gets better fairly quickly on slides.

When the pain/swelling/crunching sound in my right ankle etc goes I am going to ring around rowing clubs and see if any of them have a dynamic and/or slides and are willing to let me try in exchange for a donation.

I've had achilles tendon problems due to basketball and volleyball. I hate to say it but rest is the best thing.

I might try arms & back only rowing to at least get the heart going a bit. The thought of losing all the cardio gains over the last six months is pretty galling. I can't face swimming again, and one of the main reasons I got the machine at home was because my job is long hours and it's easy to fit a session in if it's just a 30 second walk away. Even if I could face staring at pool tiles, having the time to get there is the hard part.

[PaulG]

Yes it is very possible to row strapless on the Dynamic. I do it all the time. It just takes a little practice.

[DelurkMode]

Update: two visits to the sports doc.

No erging, ultrasounds + xrays, calf raises and knee-to-wall exercises. These have caused a bit of pain themselves, but I seem to be getting slightly stronger in terms of calf raises. I am seriously weak in the calves, which is part of the whole problem. The scans showed scarring, but no bone-on-bone stuff. Still sore in the front of the outside ankle joint in my right foot. Pain when he pressed there.

Going back to the doc on 4 weeks. He said as an experiment to try some erging in a couple of weeks, but if I get the swelling and pain like before to go for an MRI. It's possible that there is ligament damage that could only be picked up by MRI and would require surgery.

I think I'll buy slides and give that a go, or ring around rowing clubs and see if any have a dynamic that they would let me try for a donation. Intuitively it feels like the bodyweight momentum at the compress is a contributor.

[DelurkMode]

Cautiously optimistic update:

The doc doesn't think that I have any ligament tears, but I do have chronic weaknesses that are causing imbalances between my left and right leg, meaning that I am compensating with my right meaning I am overloading it, and peroneal tendon problems in my left.

I bought a pair of slides and have been doing 3 x 20 min sessions per week and will do so for at least another couple of months before considering stepping it up. I'm still noticing some discomfort, but the rest days are helping, and I'm doing calf raises and heels-to-wall etc, but I do get some pain sometimes after those.

I do like the feel of the slides more from a physical sense. I like not having to move my whole body (and head in particular!) backwards and forwards and the compress doesn't feel as harsh. One inconvenience is that I have a very cramped space to do it all in in the laundry and I have to deconstruct/reconstruct the whole set up each time so that the room can be used for its intended purpose, but I've got a passable system worked out now.

So, more hope than a few weeks ago, but not out of the woods yet. Good to be back on the erg. I'd missed that feel of having done some aerobic work. If all goes well I might consider the Dynamic, but I prefer the tank-like construction of the traditional erg.

[DelurkMode]

Ok, so a few months on, and not so good again .

I have been erging on slides 3 times per week, strapless. Stroke rater much faster (around 28-30) and about 4.5k for 20 minutes at a low drag factor - 85 but did step it up to 95 a couple of weeks ago. Thought I was going ok at first, but I've had peroneal tendonitis flares on my weaker left leg and heat and pain of (what I think) is the syndesmosis joint of my right foot. I've had a pretty severe cold for the last week so that actually has kept me off the erg, and the pain and discomfort has got worse with the break.

One thing I am thinking is that I may be pushing too hard with my ankles/heels rather than my upper leg muscles. I don't really feel much after-session burn (of the good kind) in my glutes/quads/hamstrings -- but I definitely do in my ankles and shins. Could that be an indication that I'm 'doing it wrong'? Is the correct sequence to fire the upper legs and just let the ankles and heels deliver the power and not tense up overly? I'm asking because early on I was getting wrist and elbow pain due to holding the handle with a death grip. When I consciously relaxed on the handle, the wrist and elbow problems went away. To the experts out there -- should I have relaxed ankles on the drive if that is even possible? Obviously, a lot of force is ending up there as it's the prime connection point with the machine, but what exactly are the ankles supposed to be 'doing' on a well-formed drive?

Feel like I'm in the bargaining stage of weekend warrior grief here, but any pointers very much appreciated given that technique is such a big part of the rowing/erging stroke. I've tried to take a technique video, but the space where the erg is is very cramped, and I can't get anything useful.

Again, any tips welcome!

[warnie]

Have you seen the video by Eric Murray?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMxHFU1BORw&t=195s I'm currently looking at whether or not to get slides or dynamic and I'm almost ready to bit the bullet and go dynamic. As you and others have said on another thread the slides take up a lot of room!

Sorry to hear about your injuries and I can't offer advice as I don't currently have a dynamic. One of the reasons I want to get one and move away from static is to prevent injuries (as much as anyone can). I did considered the RP3 but that's twice the price of the C2!

Apologies if you've already seen that video.