Coming back to rowing after a hiatus, but with much better fitness

[Big J]

Good grief!!! ....that's a fantastic time

You're very kind, thank you.

I nearly spat my coffee out when you casually mentioned the time That's talent right there. Great job!

Apologies for that! Thank you for the encouragement!

[Big J]

Wow.
I'm absolutely sure, I couldn't hold anything after that, if I ever reach that level at all

Having not rowed for over three years, I'm not sure my body knew what to do with itself after the effort. Holding a telephone wasn't something that came naturally or easily afterwards!

[Big J]

Targeting Luke's WR is a lofty goal. But your 5k after no rowing at all is amazing. There will be gains to be made just from erging regularly. A 5k of 1:35 pace is a similar level as the HM WR, just for your reference.
Get your 5k to that level and you can attempt to break the HM WR (and 10k, and 30 Min, and 60 Min).

I realise of course that there is a chasm between my current performance level and WR pace. I definitely feel that the longer distance efforts suit my physiology better. I am not a sprinter, and the further I get away from a sprint (up to about an hour, I'd say), the relatively stronger I get.

I have seen quite large improvements in my cycling this year with a bit more focus within my training, and the utilisation of power meters. I have also taken my fueling quite seriously, aiming for 100-150g an hour when on an effort.

For the 5 minutes that I have to make up on the HM, I reckon it'll come from three areas and I'd guess in reasonably equal measure:

1) technique improvement. If I can refine my stroke and improve my efficiency, I will be able to work less hard for the same pace

2) body adaption. I haven't rowed for three years. Put quite simply, I'm just not used to it.

3) graft and targetted training. Once the technique is refined and the body is used to the rower again, I will refine my training programme to taper into a HM effort sometime towards the end of winter. Cycling will still take priority, but I will put a few hours a week into rowing from October to April to see how fast I can get.

I am picking up a Model D (with longer legs) with a PM4 at the weekend. Let the pain begin!

[iain]

Congratulations on the 5k and best of luck with the record preparation. To your list of improvements I would add a mental element and plan as you will have a better idea of what to expect, confidence that you can deliver and a plan that works optimally for you. Most people find that no fueling or water is required for an HM, although hydrating and being adequately nourished before are of course important. Also, generating those powers I would recommend a serious fan!

I am sure that doing regular training will help, but am interested in whether you can continue the improvement on limited and deprioritised training as I would say that hard rowing training would have a significant impact. I remember comments from serious cyclists saying that the benefits of cycle training for erging are much less than erg training for cycling.

[hikeplusrow]

Also, generating those powers I would recommend a serious fan!

And I don't think iain means someone stood in the corner cheering

[Big J]

Congratulations on the 5k and best of luck with the record preparation. To your list of improvements I would add a mental element and plan as you will have a better idea of what to expect, confidence that you can deliver and a plan that works optimally for you. Most people find that no fueling or water is required for an HM, although hydrating and being adequately nourished before are of course important. Also, generating those powers I would recommend a serious fan!

I am sure that doing regular training will help, but am interested in whether you can continue the improvement on limited and deprioritised training as I would say that hard rowing training would have a significant impact. I remember comments from serious cyclists saying that the benefits of cycle training for erging are much less than erg training for cycling.

Thank you

The mental side of things is something is definitely considerable on an Erg. On the bike, when doing a hill climb, the top of the hill is a natural end point and seeing out the climb is much easier than holding a deeply uncomfortable pace on the Erg, watching the distance count down. I'm probably better prepared than most, and have this season started doing road time trials again.

On the bike, my minimum baseline is 10hrs/250km a week (whichever I reach first - road cycling is much faster than gravel) but over summer, I've been averaging more like 350km (and up to 625km). This will drop a touch over winter, but not less than 1000km a month. I'll keep my cycling in zone 2 over winter and focus on higher efforts on the erg. I reckon that's a reasonable strategy.

I have one fairly large fan now (left over from when I rowed before), but I'll need a second one. I will get a significant boost in performance when the temperature drops. Rowing in the garage with the door open when it's minus temperatures outside is the ideal situation for me. I generate massive amounts of heat.

And I don't think iain means someone stood in the corner cheering

Haha! But that would always help!

[Jbrown1215]

I got to the gym today to test myself on the Concept 2.

A bit disappointed that they were PM3 displays, so I wasn't able to connect my HR strap and was flying blind, so to speak.

Additionally, there was no cooling in the gym at all. I did my 2000m warmup and got 500m into my first attempt before genuinely overheating. I had to call my wife to bring our large cooling fan, which worked well.

The short of it is that I did 16:44.2 for the 5000m. I was able to up the pace a bit at the end, but it was a tough effort. I felt it in my arms more than anywhere, implying poor technique. It was cardiovascularly challenging too. I would have loved to have seen my heart rate.

This gives me a good start point to get work to sponsor me though. Having not touched a rower for three years and then to get (what is apparently) the 11th fastest 5k globally shows some promise. I just need to figure out which record to have a pop at!

I can't get the photo to upload here but here is the link to the post on the C2 group on Facebook. Sorry for the slightly blurry photo. I genuinely couldn't hold the phone still afterwards.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Concept ... 133984037/

Having taken ~9 months of high-volume rowing-focused training to go from "couch to sub-16:40 5k" territory myself, compared to it being your literal first session back on the erg in years, all I can say is... you have a gift, sir. With your size and clear physiological knack for endurance endeavors, I would wager that with a solid few months of a proper, rowing-specific training program you could be chasing a sub 16-minute 5k, along with a sub 1:13 half marathon. Let's just throw a sub-6 2k goal in there as well...

Impressive, to say the least. Best of luck in your endeavors. Looking forward to seeing some massive times!

[Big J]

Having taken ~9 months of high-volume rowing-focused training to go from "couch to sub-16:40 5k" territory myself, compared to it being your literal first session back on the erg in years, all I can say is... you have a gift, sir. With your size and clear physiological knack for endurance endeavors, I would wager that with a solid few months of a proper, rowing-specific training program you could be chasing a sub 16-minute 5k, along with a sub 1:13 half marathon. Let's just throw a sub-6 2k goal in there as well...

Impressive, to say the least. Best of luck in your endeavors. Looking forward to seeing some massive times!

Thanks mate

As you say, it's going to come down to repetition and time on the erg. Natural aptitude only gets you so far.

I always hated the shorter distances on the rower, but at that point I hadn't cycled for over 15 years. Since then, I've become really fond of KOM hunting on the bike, and do loads and loads of V02 max type hill climbs around where we live. So the 3-6 minute effort is something that's seen a heap of training in the last two years.

But climbing a hill at 500w and rowing a sub 6 2k are still a different kettle of fish. Cycling just never seems as crushingly painful!

[Big J]

The Erg is purchased and in the garage now. It's a tall model, so it's ruddy massive! It seems to be in more or less perfect condition and the Garmin HR strap paired up with it straight away.

Is there an easy way to sych the workouts to Strava with a PM4?

I'll start training with it properly in October, but I'll do some lower intensity technique work in the mean time. I need to wait for the temperature to drop a bit.

[Citroen]

Is there an easy way to sych the workouts to Strava with a PM4?

Concept 2's ergdata can synch workouts with various other software. It's a free download and connects to your PM5 using BTLE.

[Sakly]

Is there an easy way to sych the workouts to Strava with a PM4?

Concept 2's ergdata can synch workouts with various other software. It's a free download and connects to your PM5 using BTLE.

PM4 also had BTLE already? I thought PM3 and PM4 supported only USB cable connection via OTG adapter with a smartphone and old ergdata version or USB connection with C2 utility tool.

[winniewinser]

The Erg is purchased and in the garage now. It's a tall model, so it's ruddy massive! It seems to be in more or less perfect condition and the Garmin HR strap paired up with it straight away.

Is there an easy way to sych the workouts to Strava with a PM4?

I'll start training with it properly in October, but I'll do some lower intensity technique work in the mean time. I need to wait for the temperature to drop a bit.

PM4 is via the cable method as mentioned below by Sascha. I have that setup for the work gym C2's. Basically a Printer cable connects to the PM3/4, then that connects to an USB OTG then to a phone or tablet.

Ergdata can record the sessions then you can sync to your C2 log.....then finally setup your log to sync to Strava then you will be good to go.

PM4 also had BTLE already? I thought PM3 and PM4 supported only USB cable connection via OTG adapter with a smartphone and old ergdata version or USB connection with C2 utility tool.

[Big J]

Thanks for the tips folks. I will get organised with the cable, but in the mean time, I'm happy to take photos of the display post workout.

I will start tomorrow evening with a 30r20. I always enjoyed those. I will do a very gentle 7500m and see how that feels. It's extremely warm here at the moment (27-28c) and I don't do well in the heat, so it'll be a late night effort with fans on max.

I did a race-pace gravel cycling effort today, to see where I am in terms of qualifying for the UCI World Championships next year. I was able to hold 1kph higher than minimum qualification pace (for my 40-49) age group for the planned 1/2 distance. It was tough though, and more endurance will be required next year. 342w weighted average for over 2hrs.

https://www.strava.com/activities/12262516127

[Tobias Stoehr]

Targeting Luke's WR is a lofty goal. But your 5k after no rowing at all is amazing. There will be gains to be made just from erging regularly. A 5k of 1:35 pace is a similar level as the HM WR, just for your reference.
Get your 5k to that level and you can attempt to break the HM WR (and 10k, and 30 Min, and 60 Min).

Luke is very fascinating to me, and I assume he is to quite a few erger around. What makes that man able to do all these insane sessions? I know very little about the man, besides having watched his WR's on youtube. He is faster in the 60 minutes than a lot of great ergers, I think both Jason Marshall and Cameron Buchan have not broken 18k yet(Luke has 17994 from what I can see)? I assume he is not taller than Cam, and I would assume Jason is able to put more power into the erg for a long time. I am also not a PT so not an expert in this field, but from what I can see Luke's technique is perhaps not the most stream lined/perfected? Is he just able to withstand huge amounts of lactic acid?

Luke has a big engine. He is very tall. Lifelong athlete (swimmer in his youth). Crossfit in recent years. Polarised training to break the records. 100km-125km erg per week. Most at 75% MHR. 1-2 very hard sessions per week. He has posted most of his training on insta (@road2sub6)

[Big J]

Targeting Luke's WR is a lofty goal. But your 5k after no rowing at all is amazing. There will be gains to be made just from erging regularly. A 5k of 1:35 pace is a similar level as the HM WR, just for your reference.
Get your 5k to that level and you can attempt to break the HM WR (and 10k, and 30 Min, and 60 Min).

Luke is very fascinating to me, and I assume he is to quite a few erger around. What makes that man able to do all these insane sessions? I know very little about the man, besides having watched his WR's on youtube. He is faster in the 60 minutes than a lot of great ergers, I think both Jason Marshall and Cameron Buchan have not broken 18k yet(Luke has 17994 from what I can see)? I assume he is not taller than Cam, and I would assume Jason is able to put more power into the erg for a long time. I am also not a PT so not an expert in this field, but from what I can see Luke's technique is perhaps not the most stream lined/perfected? Is he just able to withstand huge amounts of lactic acid?

Luke has a big engine. He is very tall. Lifelong athlete (swimmer in his youth). Crossfit in recent years. Polarised training to break the records. 100km-125km erg per week. Most at 75% MHR. 1-2 very hard sessions per week. He has posted most of his training on insta (@road2sub6)

I will look that up. I might message him too. Everyone seems to be incredibly friendly, and maybe he can offer some pointers.

My competitive cycle season is almost over, with a 160km gravel race last weekend wrapping things up. About 20km of segments within it and I came second overall out of about 40. I'm quite pleased with that as all the segments were climbs. I was competing against people 15-20 years younger than me and 30-40kg lighter. I managed to place well due to consistency across the climbs and very high power. Good times

Anyway, compatible HR monitor for the PM4 has arrived, and the connection kit too, though it only has a micro USB rather than a USB C, so I have to get an adaptor.

I did a 30r20 this evening at 2:00/500m pace to start off. My plan over the next month is to just do 2 sessions a week of 30r20 to get my body used to rowing again, raising the pace 1 second/500m every time. By November, my training will start in earnest, and I'll start to vary the pace and distance. 30 minute efforts will form the backbone, with some V02 max work and some longer efforts too.

Here is my Strava entry for today's row, complete with short video. I'd be grateful for form pointers, though keep in mind that it's my second time on a rower in 3.5 years.

I feel that I need more anterior pelvic tilt, though I must admit that I had a sore backside by the twenty minute point. I'm used to sitting on a saddle, not a RowErg seat!

https://www.strava.com/activities/12460607528