Newbie(ish) questions on next steps and health

[Tiny Kimono]

Morning All,

Long-time reader on the forum, but first time registering and posting; please be gentle I'm male, 5'11", 44y/o and 90kg. I purchased a Concept2 earlier this year to try and improve my general health and fitness, particularly as running just seems to give me lots of little strains and injuries. My job can be too sedentary (and stressful), so really want to stack the odds in my favour

I am just entering the final week of Pete's beginner plan, and have certainly noticed a significant increase in fitness and stamina. The first 5k I rowed was at a split of 2:25/500m and a spm of 28; I was also really tired at the end of it!. My 12k this week was 2:09/500m and a spm of 21 (51:51 time), and although working hard my recovery to normal was pretty quick.

I just have a few questions to you more experienced people, and thought it might be easier to put them in 1 thread:

1. I have done the 3 sessions per week on the plane, which means I am rowing around 20-25km per week now. Is this enough, or should I be doing more?
2. On the longer rows my HR always seems to go to zone 4 and 5 quickly; for context on the latest 12k row I show 14:41 at 142-160bpm and then 34:33 at >160bpm. Is this too high, and do I need to do something differently? Av power on this row was 161 watt, and my normal resting HR is 65bpm.
3. I really want to lose more weight, and have already begun making adjustments in diet etc. Where should I focus my rowing to assist in this area? Ideally I'd like to be training my heart to be fitter too, but am unsure if the 2 can be done together?
4. Finally, where do I go next? It has been hard work to get to the level I am now, and although not quick, am very proud of myself for being able to row the 12k. I'd like to continue to improve fitness, burn fat, and generally keep my heart healthy.

Thanks if you've taken the time to read this, really appreciate it; will answer any questions anyone has.

[p_b82]

Hey there and welcome.

That's good progress you've made already well done!

I think a lot of questions can be answered by "what do you want to do next?"

You can easily go to a full hour now - set yourself a PB at that ranked distance; or you could set your sights a bit higher and look to take on a HM.

You could go the other way and aim for a 2k - you need the aerobic fitness for any of it, so following a training plan that you enjoy - whether structured or not - will keep things improving if you set yourself incremental improvements like the BPP does.

I only row 3x a week and was able to do a FM based on my very informal training plan earlier this year, so there is no "need" to row more often, but if you can do so, there are more gains to be made by having more sessions - with the old caveat of being able to recover from them.

My weekly average over last season was only 17k - and the 8 weeks before the FM I was only doing 34k a week average (though max week was 63k).

The diet will make more impact on your weight in terms of stored fats etc, the rowing will change your shape and put on some muscle - the more work you do, the more of a calorie deficit you will generate to aid with the weight side, so in that respect more/longer is better than shorter/harder sessions.

[winniewinser]

Morning All,

Long-time reader on the forum, but first time registering and posting; please be gentle I'm male, 5'11", 44y/o and 90kg. I purchased a Concept2 earlier this year to try and improve my general health and fitness, particularly as running just seems to give me lots of little strains and injuries. My job can be too sedentary (and stressful), so really want to stack the odds in my favour

I am just entering the final week of Pete's beginner plan, and have certainly noticed a significant increase in fitness and stamina. The first 5k I rowed was at a split of 2:25/500m and a spm of 28; I was also really tired at the end of it!. My 12k this week was 2:09/500m and a spm of 21 (51:51 time), and although working hard my recovery to normal was pretty quick.

I just have a few questions to you more experienced people, and thought it might be easier to put them in 1 thread:

1. I have done the 3 sessions per week on the plane, which means I am rowing around 20-25km per week now. Is this enough, or should I be doing more?
2. On the longer rows my HR always seems to go to zone 4 and 5 quickly; for context on the latest 12k row I show 14:41 at 142-160bpm and then 34:33 at >160bpm. Is this too high, and do I need to do something differently? Av power on this row was 161 watt, and my normal resting HR is 65bpm.
3. I really want to lose more weight, and have already begun making adjustments in diet etc. Where should I focus my rowing to assist in this area? Ideally I'd like to be training my heart to be fitter too, but am unsure if the 2 can be done together?
4. Finally, where do I go next? It has been hard work to get to the level I am now, and although not quick, am very proud of myself for being able to row the 12k. I'd like to continue to improve fitness, burn fat, and generally keep my heart healthy.

Thanks if you've taken the time to read this, really appreciate it; will answer any questions anyone has.

Welcome aboard and great progress so far.

I have been through the BPP once and am now on my second time after a small haitus for various reasons. It's a good plan and if you adjust targets to keep them challenging then progress will surely follow.

1) I am doing the 3 'compulsary' sessions and 1 of the optional at the moment. Maybe even throwing in a 5th session when I can but I need the Wednesday/Sunday rest days for recovery. If you can do more then I would say go for it as it will only help but be mindful of what your body needs for recovery too.

2) For the longer sessions you may be pushing the pace a little too hard if you getting into Zone 5. We're all different but I find I end up in Zone 4 for the majority of these sessions unless I really slow down to focus on a Zones 2/3 (but that is hard when the ego is begging to go faster). How is your pace on the faster session like 8x500 for example? I try and save the exertion for those rather than the longer sessions which for me are about building resistance to endure but not at a pace that is too hard.

3) Long slow rows tend to be best for weight loss......so slow it all down and just keep sweating .

4) If you haven't already maybe start with a full on 2k TT and see where you rank on the C2 ranking for your age/weight/sex. Then as mentioned by p_b82, try some of the longer sessions like 60', HM and even FM. Training for those may also fulfill you're need for longer sessions for the weight loss.

Above all though, have fun and enjoy the journey.

[iain]

The right training for you will be what you enjoy as modified for any rowing objectives. Sounds like you are not a happy "plodder", so perhaps the Pete Lunchtime Plan may work for you. If intending to use this for a few months, you do need to be conservative on initial sessions. It is designed around 6 sessions a week, but no reason that each "round" takes 3 weeks so take as long as you want. Rowing 3 times a week is sufficient to build pretty good fitness. Extra sessions will allow more improvement, but it will be diminishing returns. One thing is that you do lose fitness after 3 days off, so you should try and spread the sessions.

As for speed, how did you determine your HR zones? Are you sure of your Max Hr, because without this or lactate tests you really cannot calibrate these. You will find that if you are doing hard sessions without a rest day then you will need to slow these a bit and you shouldn't exceed threshold for most of the row (that is where it starts to feel hard and HR picks up after an inflection). Pete says that you should finish the SS rows feeling like you could do the same distance again if you had to.

Basically any regular rowing should improve/maintain your heart health. As for weight loss, I haven't noticed that short hard sessions have less effect than long slow, although I do usually finish then with 30 min cool downs. Remember you continue to burn calories after a hard row so although you will have burned less calories during the session, the difference is not so great over the full day. Also while you won't burn much fat on the rows, depleting glycogen will mean that you burn more fat for the rest of the day.

Great start and look forward to hearing how you progress from here.

[Tiny Kimono]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Few answers to the specific questions below:

How is your pace on the faster session like 8x500 for example? - The last one I did was 24spm, 230watt, 1:55/500m, 15:20 total time. Majority of the row (13 minutes) was Zone 4 and below on this.

As for speed, how did you determine your HR zones - Literally using the zones through the C2erg app, although the HR is reasonably consistent with Apple Watch data also. I think my focus has been on constantly beating previous rows, and perhaps not focussed on the correct feel at the end of a SS row.

I'll definitely look at the lunchtime plan, I find I train better when I have a clear and defined plan to work too. I think winniewinser also makes a valid point about ego, and I need to be mindful of this. The sweating is certainly a given on the >10k rows

Any advice on where to set the damper level, as I've read (and heard) a lot of different opinions. Currently I'm set at 5.

Thank you for giving your time and thoughts, much appreciated.

[winniewinser]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Few answers to the specific questions below:

How is your pace on the faster session like 8x500 for example? - The last one I did was 24spm, 230watt, 1:55/500m, 15:20 total time. Majority of the row (13 minutes) was Zone 4 and below on this.

As for speed, how did you determine your HR zones - Literally using the zones through the C2erg app, although the HR is reasonably consistent with Apple Watch data also. I think my focus has been on constantly beating previous rows, and perhaps not focussed on the correct feel at the end of a SS row.

I'll definitely look at the lunchtime plan, I find I train better when I have a clear and defined plan to work too. I think winniewinser also makes a valid point about ego, and I need to be mindful of this. The sweating is certainly a given on the >10k rows

Any advice on where to set the damper level, as I've read (and heard) a lot of different opinions. Currently I'm set at 5.

Thank you for giving your time and thoughts, much appreciated.

Drag....5 on one machine can be very different on another. Best to check it via the PM to see the actual value rather than where the lever is set.

https://www.concept2.com/training/artic ... er-setting

Personally I started at 120 and it has kinda worked for me for most session outside of all out sprints where it goes up to 140+ (1min, 500m etc). It's a very personal thing though as it changes the feel of the stroke. The monitor works out the pace by seeing how fast the flywheel slows and is then accellerated by the stroke....so a low DF of say 95 will feel light in the drive and may not get you the pace your physical ability could produce. Have a play rowing 2 min intervals on various drags at the same intensity and see what feel right/gives the best pace.

[Dangerscouse]

4. Finally, where do I go next? It has been hard work to get to the level I am now, and although not quick, am very proud of myself for being able to row the 12k.

You should be proud. Rowing properly is hard work, but it also repays hard work, so you're making good progress, probably not as fast as you'd like, but it is good.

Where you go next is onwards, with occasional wrong turns, regressions and bad decisions, but mainly progress and a growing sense of pride and ability that you're mastering it.

[iain]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Few answers to the specific questions below:

How is your pace on the faster session like 8x500 for example? - The last one I did was 24spm, 230watt, 1:55/500m, 15:20 total time. Majority of the row (13 minutes) was Zone 4 and below on this.

As for speed, how did you determine your HR zones - Literally using the zones through the C2erg app, although the HR is reasonably consistent with Apple Watch data also. I think my focus has been on constantly beating previous rows, and perhaps not focussed on the correct feel at the end of a SS row.

I'll definitely look at the lunchtime plan, I find I train better when I have a clear and defined plan to work too. I think winniewinser also makes a valid point about ego, and I need to be mindful of this. The sweating is certainly a given on the >10k rows

Any advice on where to set the damper level, as I've read (and heard) a lot of different opinions. Currently I'm set at 5.

Thank you for giving your time and thoughts, much appreciated.

Can't add to Alex's comment on the damper. I find that higher readings tire my legs faster while paradoxically increasing the importance of upper body strength. Also the slower your rating the higher the drag that can be used as the impact is to increase the rate of slowing so give it less time to slow down and the impact is smaller. Too low and it gets harder to accelerate the flywheel. So stronger (especially upper body) people tend to prefer higher drag while faster more explosive individuals prefer lower.

R24 is very low for an 8 x 500 but you generated good speed without fully challenging your CV system. This bodes well. If you want to compete formally (there is a monthly team competition the Concept2 Team Challenge that is a "fun " diversion, but teams have other challenges as well as online and (rare) in person races) or informally via season and personal bests, you might like to try and increase the rating a bit. 30+ is where you should aim in the end, but that will take some working up to.

Unless you have input MaxHr it will be using a formula. This could well be 20 beats out. My App says I exceed my max HR on every serious session! So ignore what it is telling you. You could input the highest HR you have seen to recalibrate it. However more important is what it feels like. You know when you go through "threshold" (usually the Zone 4) as it is when you want to stop. breathing gets more laboured and rowing at this pace gets noticably harder. Zone 3 is sweaty, although this may not be obvious in aircon or with a decent fan and fresh air. In Zone 2 you should be able to carry on a conversation. BUt Pete didn't rate Zone 2 training, so staying below threshold is needed for SS sessions (where you should feel you could do double the distance if you had to) while the intervals should go high so no need to assess except perhaps retrospectively to see whether it was as hard as it felt!.

[Tiny Kimono]

Morning All,

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my questions, it really is appreciated. I'm looking now at the Pete Lunchtime plan in order to continue to improve, and taking on board all the feedback below. Despite the hard work, I've really enjoyed the last 26 weeks and can absolutely feel the benefit in my overall fitness levels. Going forwards I'm going to add in a flexibility/stretching session every week and some light weight work.

Many Thanks