Confused about settling on a reasonable 2k pace

[GloryQS]

Hello everyone,

After having bought a concept2 erg in february I have taking indoor rowing more seriously lately. I've rowed competitively for a year in 2007/8 (trained 6x per week) and think I have reasonable technique. My 2k PR back then was 6:58 at 68 kg and 1,82m.

I'm looking for a 2k pace to try and achieve now (at 81 kg), but I am unsure what to aim for and I don't want to blow up and suffer in the second half. I recently did a 10x300r1min interval workout at an average of 1:47 with a very tiny bit of energy to spare. My max HR during that workout (at the end) was 202. My last SS sessions were 45 min t20 @2:20 avg and 150 HR avg; and a 30 min t20 @2:16 avg and 158 HR avg.

Based on the interval workout I originally wanted to aim for 7:12 (1:48 split) but info online says that puts me in a UT2 zone of 2:04-2:05, which I feel I am way off. This would suggest my aerobic base is not good enough. My plan now is to try a 500m at 1:38 which I should be able to do according to Paul's Law (doubling of distance --> +5s split) if I want a 7:12 2k. That of course assumes I am aerobically/anaerobically balance which I doubt due to my SS numbers.

Anyway, colour me confused and any advice would be much appreciated!

[winniewinser]

Hello everyone,

After having bought a concept2 erg in february I have taking indoor rowing more seriously lately. I've rowed competitively for a year in 2007/8 (trained 6x per week) and think I have reasonable technique. My 2k PR back then was 6:58 at 68 kg and 1,82m.

I'm looking for a 2k pace to try and achieve now (at 81 kg), but I am unsure what to aim for and I don't want to blow up and suffer in the second half. I recently did a 10x300r1min interval workout at an average of 1:47 with a very tiny bit of energy to spare. My max HR during that workout (at the end) was 202. My last SS sessions were 45 min t20 @2:20 avg and 150 HR avg; and a 30 min t20 @2:16 avg and 158 HR avg.

Based on the interval workout I originally wanted to aim for 7:12 (1:48 split) but info online says that puts me in a UT2 zone of 2:04-2:05, which I feel I am way off. This would suggest my aerobic base is not good enough. My plan now is to try a 500m at 1:38 which I should be able to do according to Paul's Law (doubling of distance --> +5s split) if I want a 7:12 2k. That of course assumes I am aerobically/anaerobically balance which I doubt due to my SS numbers.

Anyway, colour me confused and any advice would be much appreciated!

Best way to find out where you are is do a 2k ....or one of the other sessions that can be a good barometer such as 4x1km/3'R or 8x500m/2'R.

Best not to look back at past times as that can lead to feeling downheartened when you can't achieve similar results. Fresh start, draw a line in the sand and go from there......and enjoy it!

[Dangerscouse]

I'd also say be careful of comparing yourself to the 2008 model of you. That's a long time ago, but it does sound like you've got a solid base of fitness to build on, so it will come back relatively quickly.

Is the extra 13kg muscle, fat or both, and have you been sedentary for the past 16 years, excluding your recent increase in activity?

That 10 x 300m session is possibly a good indicator, but it's too short to really know what will happen in a full 2k, so as Alex suggests, some longer intervals will be beneficial. FWIW, I prefer 5 x 750m instead of 8 x 500, as it doesn't sound much, but the additional 250m can be a minefield.

You sound like you know what you're doing, so it's a matter of staying patient and incrementally progressing with regular tests

[Sakly]

Based on your current numbers I would say 7:12 is way too optimistic. If you could average 10x300 1r with slightly below the target pace you want to hold for 2k, this shows you cannot do it yet.
Based on your steady and interval pace, I would think you can get to a 1:52-54 pace at best, but only a 2k can show what's in you

[GloryQS]

Thank you all for the response! I will do some longer intervals to get more information about my fitness.

Is the extra 13kg muscle, fat or both, and have you been sedentary for the past 16 years, excluding your recent increase in activity?

In 2018 I did strength training for a year and gained 8 kg of muscle, then I stopped and the weight never dropped haha. So a significant part is probably fat. I was sedentary from 2009 to 2012 due to disease, but since then I have been playing sports at least twice a week almost all of my life, mostly leg dominant (volleyball).

I prefer 5 x 750m instead of 8 x 500

Are these sessions supposed to be done at my 2k pace or do i need to translate the splits somehow?

Based on your steady and interval pace, I would think you can get to a 1:52-54 pace at best

thank you Sakly, I didn't know how to interpret the interval training. I was thinking to start off at 1:50 and see how it goes, but 1:52 might be better and I could still prove you wrong if I can get a negative split!

[Sakly]

Based on your steady and interval pace, I would think you can get to a 1:52-54 pace at best

thank you Sakly, I didn't know how to interpret the interval training. I was thinking to start off at 1:50 and see how it goes, but 1:52 might be better and I could still prove you wrong if I can get a negative split!

Me either, but that's what I would estimate from it based on my own experiences, paces and trainings
To give a context: my 75% HR max trainings are at ca. 2:02-2:03 for a distance of a HM. I only did 1min on/1min off once, it's kind of similar to 300m intervals, for 30 intervals, averaged at 1:36.x. Factoring in only 10 of them and a bit shorter (1min > 300m for me), I think I could go down to probably 1:33. My 2k PB is at 1:39, so steady is 2k+~23, intervals estimated to be 2k-6. Transferring it to your numbers gives you a 2k pace of ~1:58 based on SS, ~1:53 based on the intervals, if I apply the same numbers.
As I think that intervals show much better the cumulative stress and fatigue, I tend to go more for the interval prediction than the SS. That was the long story of thoughts how I estimated it
Would like to see you proving me wrong!

PS: for me a 4x1k 3:30r was spot on for 2k pace.

[iain]

I find that 5x750 r3' is 1S/500m or so faster than 2k. Re the 300s, will depend upon what rating you maintained, but I think these would be 3-5S/500m quicker than 2k, so you might be able to hold 1:50-2 but as they may be largely anaerobic, not a great predictor for the mainly aerobic 2k. However the 2k has very different mental requirements, so starting at 1:53-4 would be wise as fly & die is not to be recommended.

[GloryQS]

Re the 300s, will depend upon what rating you maintained

I rated at 30spm which is my target rate for my 2k. I guess I could have gone faster if I rated higher because they should be sprints. And yes I would very much prefer not to fly and die, did that once before in a dry hall as my first 2k. My lungs and stomach were NOT happy

That was the long story of thoughts how I estimated it

Thanks for the effort! Based on that comparison I feel pretty confident I can start off at 1:52. I think I will try 4x1000r3:30 at 1:52 then to see where I'm at. I think they will test me the most aerobically.

[Sakly]

That was the long story of thoughts how I estimated it

Thanks for the effort! Based on that comparison I feel pretty confident I can start off at 1:52. I think I will try 4x1000r3:30 at 1:52 then to see where I'm at. I think they will test me the most aerobically.

Keep us updated in the thread "What Training Have You Done Today"

[harrythehamster]

FWIW,
6x750m/r2:30 done at 1:46.7 avg (flying starts except 1st), actual online 2k race week or so later avg was 1:47.2 avg IIRC
6x1k/r1' 1:48.8 avg (CTC 2023 March?, similar starts as above), one of my strongest intervals ever ( i don't do intervals too often (shorter ones mostly only for the monthly CTC), and '/when i do i tend to do much longer intervals like 4x15'/r5 or 3x20'/r10' where rest is actually not "rest" but actually UT2ish paced rowing, so interval that are more targeting longer distances from 60' to FM than 2k.
2k test Apr 31, 2023) 7:07 PB

ATM 2k hardly under 7:20 for 2k, UT2 1-2 hours at rate19/20 2:07/2:09 pace (used to be 2:04/2:06 at my best when lots of my PBs were done incl. 2k), keeping HR (hopefully) under 140 till the end of the session (avg for the whole 90'/120' session can be as low as 125,) (my max erging HR is about 180, highest seen 179 lately). Contrary to many others i don't cut my longer sessions into shorter pieces (eg. 3x40'/r2' or whatever), but may take very quick drink break (10 sec or so) after 90' in if feeling thirsty

500m PB is 1:37.2, FM 2:48:25/1:59.7) to give some perspective of my "capabilities", so slow hound dog -type of a erger, not a whippet.

[iain]

FWIW,6x750m/r2:30 done at 1:46.7 avg (flying starts except 1st), actual online 2k race week or so later avg was 1:47.2 avg IIRC
6x1k/r1' 1:48.8 avg (CTC 2023 March?, similar starts as above), one of my strongest intervals ever ( i don't do intervals too often (shorter ones mostly only for the monthly CTC), and '/when i do i tend to do much longer intervals like 4x15'/r5 or 3x20'/r10' where rest is actually not "rest" but actually UT2ish paced rowing, so interval that are more targeting longer distances from 60' to FM than 2k.
2k test Apr 31, 2023) 7:07 PB/quote]

Fascinating. Pete used to claim 6 x 1k r1' was a good predictor for 5k, while 5x750 r3' was a less good predictor for 2k, so amazed your averages were so close.

[GloryQS]

Interesting harry! You seem like a long distance beast wow. Goes to show that everyone is different. I just did a 1:37.7 500m after an hour of ss, which was at least showing I have the sprint speed for a 1:48 2k, but I'm sure the lungs are lacking. Will soon do that 4x1k interval training to know for sure...

[iain]

Interesting harry! You seem like a long distance beast wow. Goes to show that everyone is different. I just did a 1:37.7 500m after an hour of ss, which was at least showing I have the sprint speed for a 1:48 2k, but I'm sure the lungs are lacking. Will soon do that 4x1k interval training to know for sure...

While I would agree that 4x1k is probably the best predictor for 2k (other than a 2k!) how it relates does vary. While Sakly finds with 3:30 rest it is at 2k pace, some people are up to 1S /500m slower even after 6 min rest! So the first won't allow you to predict your 2k perfectly. Hope it goes well.

[GloryQS]

Result:
1:49.2 t30
1:49.5 t29
1:49.7 t29
1:49.3 t30

Let's hope it translates, because I would be very happy with a sub 7:20 2k as a first test! And to prove Sakly wrong ofc haha.

[Sakly]

Result:
1:49.2 t30
1:49.5 t29
1:49.7 t29
1:49.3 t30

Let's hope it translates, because I would be very happy with a sub 7:20 2k as a first test! And to prove Sakly wrong ofc haha.

Good stuff here
With this piece in the books, I would say 7:20 could be a valid target. If you get below or over depends much on your ability to enjoy the pain of the last few hundred meters
Curious about your result!