Erg time vs. OTW time in a double

[D1Metro]

My friend and I are novices, my 2k is 7:09 I'm 145Ib and my friend's 2k is 7:04 and he's 170Ib and we're trying to estimate what our 2k on the water in a double would be so we can move from there and set a goal for our selves. Our goal by mid may is around 7 minutes, we row really well together and we want to know how much we would have to improve to get there. Can anyone help out with this?

[jamesg]

As novices you'll be doing well if you can get below ten minutes.

You can see 2x times for any regatta anywhere in the world on the Net; or even on paper.

For example in years 1947 to 1956, at HRR in UK (2112m), the Doubles winners had times from 7:37 to 8:46. The extra 112m with respect to a 2k e can weigh heavily at the end.

In 1977 2x winning times from were 8:20 to 8:43, and 7:11 to 9:18 in the years from '67 to '76.

These were all men and some of Olympic standard.

NB the 2k distance is a fixation for optimistic ergers, but on water is used mainly for national and international racing, since it's extremely tough: Olympic indeed. It's unlikely for local events for lack of water.

I raced in eights, fours and singles from 1955 to 1962, but not once a 2k. First 2k I ever did was at age 65 on an erg in Rome.

[iain]

OTW times are much more dependent on good technique while times are affected by the current speed, so the answer is "it will depend". Also the erg pace was set up to mimic a 4 not a 2X.

[Cyclist2]

As novices you'll be doing well if you can get below ten minutes.

I agree. My best (current) 2K times are at a 1:54-1:56 pace (73 y.o. lightweight), my single times, and my doubles times are 2:30 - 2:40 pace. Thank god for handicaps .

OTW times are much more dependent on good technique

Also agree with this. I get my strength training on the erg, and work mostly on technique on the water.

[Same]

CrewLAB just added a good calculator for working out the relationship between on the water times and erg times.

Check it out
https://crewlab.io/calculator/

[GeorgeP]

Yes the crew lab estimate is correct for an Elite rower. When NZ Sculler Rob Waddell held the world record in both the single and the Erg over 2k his sculling time was19.5% slower than his Erg.
But even a reasonable Novice might be 30-40% slower in the single than on the Erg. For a double the difference is about half depending also on how well you row together. Doubles have even been known to be slower than the average single times of their crew!

I have a blog that addresses such issues: https://heartheergzing.blogspot.com/

[Tsnor]

Almost everywhere water conditions make guessing splits from erg times impossible. You can't even compare splits from an 8am race vs a 10am race -- water and wind change too fast.

If you want data use an app like boatcoach or a watch like garmin 265 that will track both splits and stroke rate. You can see a failed sprint, or bad stroking, or mid race sag really easily looking at graphs of split times overlayed with stroke rate. Ignore the magnitude of the split, look for consistency and adherence to race plan. There are also dedicated devices (e.g. speedcoach) that can collect this data for you, but they are pricy.

Also, at least for sprints, nothing compares to getting a boat beside you when you try starts, etc. It's easy to do a start that feels strong that is actually MUCH slower than competition. Not as important for fall head races.

Erg times do tell you a lot about conditioning. Ergs and C2 log are are excellent training tools. Not great predictors of who is fast on the water.