Zone 2-3 Heart rate? I can't even stay outta Zone 5

[cakeman]

Hullo all..

50M ex-construction worker, now in a more sedentary job and gettin older so I really need to get some exercise. We've a small gym at work and so back in April I hopped on the Erg 3x a week..

It was friggin rough at the start, through April.. I was mucking about with some intervals, trying different things, getting form somewhat figured out and seeing improvements..

Once the C2 Ergdata / Logbook restarted on May 1, I moved to pretty much doing 30 min rows, 3x a week, and went from 5500m/2:42 pace to regularly doing ~6400m/2:20 pace.. I'm generally rowing at 16-18 spm.

My issue is I'm trying to get my heart rate down a bunch. When I first sit down on the rower and connect my garmin chest strap, Im around 80-90bpm after the 5 min walk to the gym.. Within 5 mins rowing Im at ~145 and within 10 mins Im at 160.. by the 30 min mark I'm at 170.

I dont think I'm pushing very hard, physically.. (average watts ~123)and I feel I've got lots of room for work left over at the end of the row.. but from day 1 until now my heart rate has followed approximately the same path.. with an average rate over the 30 mins of ~155-160.

Any suggestions as to changing up my routine to help lower this? I have been checked over by a doc recently and my bp and general heart function are apparently ok.

[JaapvanE]

Could be a technique thing: if your technique is off, you can burn a lot of energy without the flywheel feeling it. Any people training you or have you watched videos (rowing is not an intuitive sport).

[Spinal]

Maybe forget about heart rate rate and go by RPE.

Get your technique right + follow a proper structured training plan with varying intensity and progressive overload. Heart rate will look after itself.

[iain]

Do you know what your HRmax is? THere are people with HRmax well over 200 who are older than you, the age related formulas only work if you happen to be average. From what you describe I would be very surprised if you are in zone 5 and probably not in zone 4. I have to train hard for 6 months or more before I can keep my HR in what I believe is zone 2 and then only at slow paces. Zone 2 is very slow and does not produce the satisfaction for many that they are seeking. As you have got fitter you have rowed faster, not surprising then that your HR doesn't stay slower. As we settle into a routine and endorphins flood our system a harder effort seems easier so it is very easy to be working at zone 3 or even low zone 4 without it feeling hard.

By rowing standards 30 mins are not long rows. These are short for a regular rower to do in zone 2, so why do you want to be in zone 2? Forget Maffetone, 130 is not a magic number and is zone 1 for some and zone 3 for others. If you wish to train for your best performance you will need some sessions to be very hard and so it is likely that some other sessions will need to be easy to achieve these. But if you just want regular moderate sessions to stay fit, nothing wrong with what you are doing!

[Ombrax]

I agree with Iain - you first need to figure out what you max HR is.

1) Forget about formulas like 220 - age, or whatever.

2) There are a number of different ways to do this on the erg. See the link below for one example:

https://analytics.rowsandall.com/2016/1 ... eart-rate/

[dabatey]

HR runs high when starting out. I've used the magical powers of C2 log to randomly pick an early 30min row of mine (below). Note it's natural to speed up a touch at the end and get a finishing HR that is a tad false. 173 at the end. Maybe ignore HR and go by RPE until a bit fitter as others have suggested.

That said 16-18 shouldn't be pushing you to that HR unless really hauling hard, so maybe have a check of drag factor (damper lever) as it might be too high.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
30:00.0 6,409m 2:20.4 126 734 24 159
6:00.0 1,260m 2:22.8 120 713 23 149
12:00.0 1,284m 2:20.1 127 737 21 154
18:00.0 1,276m 2:21.0 125 729 25 157
24:00.0 1,277m 2:20.9 125 730 25 164
30:00.0 1,312m 2:17.1 136 766 27 173

[Dangerscouse]

As Iain mentions, you need to also push the boundaries fairly regularly to make your fitness and HR improve, as consistently doing the same distance will be slower progress than doing a variety of sessions.

Having said that, there's a wide variety of HRs, so don't fall into the trap that lower is better. HR is whatever is right for you, and I also advocate Spinal's recommendation of RPE.

[hikeplusrow]

Hullo all..

50M ex-construction worker, now in a more sedentary job and gettin older so I really need to get some exercise. We've a small gym at work and so back in April I hopped on the Erg 3x a week..

It was friggin rough at the start, through April.. I was mucking about with some intervals, trying different things, getting form somewhat figured out and seeing improvements..

Once the C2 Ergdata / Logbook restarted on May 1, I moved to pretty much doing 30 min rows, 3x a week, and went from 5500m/2:42 pace to regularly doing ~6400m/2:20 pace.. I'm generally rowing at 16-18 spm.

My issue is I'm trying to get my heart rate down a bunch. When I first sit down on the rower and connect my garmin chest strap, Im around 80-90bpm after the 5 min walk to the gym.. Within 5 mins rowing Im at ~145 and within 10 mins Im at 160.. by the 30 min mark I'm at 170.

I dont think I'm pushing very hard, physically.. (average watts ~123)and I feel I've got lots of room for work left over at the end of the row.. but from day 1 until now my heart rate has followed approximately the same path.. with an average rate over the 30 mins of ~155-160.

Any suggestions as to changing up my routine to help lower this? I have been checked over by a doc recently and my bp and general heart function are apparently ok.

I think these HR figures (relative to wattage) most probably indicate that you need to do more cardio. I suggest gradually increasing erging volume and/or frequency, while at the same time working on your technique - which is unlikely to be perfect.

[jamesg]

regularly doing ~6400m/2:20 pace.. I'm generally rowing at 16-18 spm.

Looks like you're pulling a good stroke (stroke work = 120W/rate16 = 7.5W'). Make sure you use the legs.

How tall are you? Do you know your resting HR?

[cakeman]

Wow, thanks for all the replies, appreciate the input..

@JaapvanE - I dont have anyone training me but I have watched a variety of videos on form multiple times since I started.. both C2s own videos and, i think, Darkhorse Rowing on youtube. Im sure its not 100% by any means, but I know its not nearly as bad as some Ive seen, haha.

@Spinal - thanks, I'll look into RPE

@iain - I don't, I absolutely just followed 220-age and ran with it. I'm not so much obsessing over needing to hang out in Zone 2 as a number, more that I'm trying to (terms I dont 100% understand incoming) get both Aerobic and Anaerobic and as I (barely) understood it, a convenient measure is heart rate. I also wasn't sure that spending 3-5 days a week hanging around at my (perceived) max HR would be a 'good' thing, especially as a newbie to regular cardio.

Yeah, I figured that 30 mins wasnt a long row.. I'm kinda stunned looking at what some folks on here, reddit or generally will do, haha. Its also what I can get away with during my lunch break and if I set it into a habit for myself, I may get off my butt and start doing longer pieces at home.

@Ombrax - Thanks for the link, I'll go have a read..

@dabatey - drag is set to 130 +/- 3 .. our c2 logs could be twins.. if you don't mind, what do your current #s look like?
https://imgur.com/a/yBrWatG

@dangerscouse - good to know, I was prioritizing time/metres over all rather than variety..

@hikeplusrow - more erging it is.. and yeah, Im under no illusions my form is perfect, hah.

@jamesg - yeah, figuring out to use the legs was one of the first big jumps in my distance.. was quite literally sitting there watching my split and went "ohhhhh, i see" hah. ~6'1", 280.. certainly some belly to get in the way currently but also just a big dude generally.. lifting heavy things at work all day for 15 years. I hadnt known my resting rate prior to just now.. when I sit down at the rower the pm5 and my chest strap report ~90.. Sitting at my desk for the last 30 mins, eating breakfast and just counted an 82, manually.

thanks again everyone..

[JaapvanE]

@JaapvanE - I dont have anyone training me but I have watched a variety of videos on form multiple times since I started.. both C2s own videos and, i think, Darkhorse Rowing on youtube. Im sure its not 100% by any means, but I know its not nearly as bad as some Ive seen, haha.

That is important. Remember, pace follows form, so if your form/technique improves so does pace and efficiency. Finding a good breathing rythem (related to your stroke rate) also helps keep HR in check. One of my training buddies even forces his HR via his breathing rythm. But he was an international rowing champ, so his Voodoo tricks are the more advanced course I guess.

I hadnt known my resting rate prior to just now.. when I sit down at the rower the pm5 and my chest strap report ~90.. Sitting at my desk for the last 30 mins, eating breakfast and just counted an 82, manually.

That is an acceptable number as I can see. It might go down if training improves your cardiovascular fitness.

I agree with most here that how a piece feels is very important. HR Zone 2 training is important as it is a form of training that should be sustainable for large volume throughout the week. HR might provide clues (hitting close to MaxHR each and every training might not be ideal), but if you step off the machine and feel good, than it is OK. If you completed your weekly training cycle a couple of times and don't feel worn out or structurally fatigued, you are doing the right thing. Listening to your body is important in these situations.

[dabatey]

Wow, thanks for all the replies, appreciate the input..

@dabatey - drag is set to 130 +/- 3 .. our c2 logs could be twins.. if you don't mind, what do your current #s look like?
https://imgur.com/a/yBrWatG

Hi cakeman. All my latest rows are in the what training have you done today thread (which is a good one to post in btw) so you can have a look there if you want. Funnily enough i'm kinda repeating the schedule I did 2 and a half years ago which is made up of 30-60 minute rows for now. My heartrate is definitely a fair bit lower after nearly 3 years of exercise (mainly cycling), but probably doesn't show in the current rowing HR stats as I think I'm probably pushing it a bit more now, plus I'm currently unfit at rowing compared to cycling.

BTW I'm only just over 60kg, so if you are significantly heavier (fighting weight) you'll soon easily surpass any C2 log stats of mine and they'd no longer be twins lol. If I was at your 16-18 spm I'd be around a 2.22-2.26 pace (I think) and quite a lowish HR.

[cakeman]

That is important. Remember, pace follows form, so if your form/technique improves so does pace and efficiency. Finding a good breathing rythem (related to your stroke rate) also helps keep HR in check. One of my training buddies even forces his HR via his breathing rythm. But he was an international rowing champ, so his Voodoo tricks are the more advanced course I guess.

Yeah, figuring out my breathing was another big jump in my longevity.. I started out thinking I "had" to just breathe out at the end of the drive and finish my in-breathe at the start of the catch. Problem is, with a belly, I'd run into my legs, compress my chest, reduce my breath..

I now do 2 breaths, exhale-pre catch, inhale through catch into drive, exhale end of drive into return.. That definitely helped my HR some.

Ill try to get a form video and have some folks here critique it. cheers..

[JaapvanE]

Problem is, with a belly, I'd run into my legs, compress my chest, reduce my breath..

Know the problem, have it as well. Getting a good breathing rythm is tricky indeed when your legs crush the air out.

AFAIK, on both the RowAlong and UCanRow2 youtube channels there are videos about rowing with a bigger belly, with some practical tips.

[jamesg]

6'1", 280.. when I sit down at the rower the pm5 and my chest strap report ~90.. Sitting at my desk for the last 30 mins, eating breakfast and just counted an 82, manually.

Rest HR somewhat on the high side; training tends to reduce it, giving us a wider HR range we can use.

Your weight implies a shortish stroke, so at your low ratings (spm) you must be pulling very hard. Did your doc suggest you stay below any particular max HR? Mine said stay below 120, for which I was grateful, it doesn't take much work at all to get there.

Do you plan to lose some weight? Exercise is necessary for all of us, but not sufficient.