Rowing for Base Building - Strategy Advice

[Imali]

Hi everyone, new user here from Scotland, UK.

I've completed my 3rd RowErg session so far,18k (3 x 6k). I bought the machine primarily to cross train and help build a strong base to improve my very recreational running. I find it extremely hard to do that effectively outdoors as my heart is very reactive to elevation changes and I quickly end up high aerobic.

What's the best strategy for effective cardio base and endurance training using the RowErg with consideration of below?

Male, 39, 6ft 2, 83 kg, MHR 194, RHR 63 (+/- 3)

• Current Avg Rowing Stats: 6000m sessions, 30:48 mins, 2:34 min/500, 26 s/m, 96W

• Rower Setting: 4, DF 120

• Heart Rate: AvgHR 136, AvgMHR 148, Effort 7 (Feel harder in relation to HR!

[jcross485]

Welcome to the C2 world!

I personally picked up a C2 for my garage gym with the intent of using it as a base builder to support running as my running volume was beating me up a bit. I've since gone pretty well all-in on the rower; I am doing quite a bit of strength work as well but it's all in support of rowing. I really enjoy running and will add some in from time to time but it doesn't like me back nearly as much.

All of that said, when I started on the erg, I undertook the Beginner Pete Plan as a way to build volume and the ability to row for extended periods before moving into my own "program" which is loosely based upon the another program. While the Beginner Pete Plan does include some higher intensity interval work, I do think one session of that type of effort once per week will help you get better and more efficient at rowing, similar to how doing some speedier running efforts will make your stride more efficient. Depending on your desired frequency, the three days outlined are a great place to start and if you're going to sneak in a fourth day, the optional day 4 will be another good base building session.

https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/

YouTube is also a good resource for learning the technique or mechanics of efficiently rowing or erging as you get the visual component. Justin Brown has a couple of "Learn to Row" videos on there which I would highly recommend and the remainder of his channel will very likely inspire you to go a bit more all-in on rowing.

[Dangerscouse]

Everyone is different, to a lesser or higher extent so take advice with the caveat that just because it works for me / them, it might not be ideal for you.

It sounds like you've got a decent base fitness, but erging is a different kind of effort, so it's not directly comparable. I'd say an effective cardio base will be something that will transfer over, and I'd also recommend the Beginner's Pete Plan.

It's an easy mistake to make that you avoid more intense sessions, but they will be very beneficial for both running and erging, but ultimately specificity is a very pertinent issue for both of these, so make sure you devote more time to whatever you want to prioritise.

Your average HR is good, and don't worry about the RPE as that will improve as you adapt and adjust to the effort. There's lots of tendons & ligaments in addition to muscle that will need time to get more reliable and stronger.

For the first couple of months just focus on getting your technique fine tuned as this will be really beneficial, and detrimental if you don't. For a seemingly simple exercise it's surprisingly complicated.

[jamesg]

Current Avg Rowing Stats: 6000m sessions, 30:48 mins, 2:34 min/500, 26 s/m, 96W

You need to learn to row to be able to train. 96W/rate26 = 3.7 W-min per stroke (ie work per stroke) is far too low.

See: https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

Or currently Henley Royal Regatta on youtube. Or https://www.hrr.co.uk/

[iain]

ALthough there are a few people who swear by rating high, most people would use a much lower rating on steady rows. Anything from 18-22 is used, but I would suggest you try and slow your stroke into that zone. To do this, you should aim to keep the drive strong and perhaps a bit quicker (this determines the work per stroke mentioned by James). Rowing is very different to running as you keep going between much less frequent efforts. THe key is to drive strongly pushing with the legs similar to a squat although done horizontally. At the end of your stroke you should crawl very slowly up the slide to give your muscles time to recover for the next stroke. You may have to lower the rate in stages and try not to pause, just slow everything after the stroke is complete until you are at the "catch" for the next drive. The other key is to make sure that the full leg drive is reflected in the movement of the chain, so you don't rotate forward during the drive and your arms take the catch straight.

18k is a long session for someone new to rowing. You can buyild a great base with 1hr sessions, so maybe do 3 x 20' instead. That way you shoulkd be able to concentrate on maintaining your technique as this gets harder s we tire. A steady row should leave you feeling that you have done some work, but that you could repeat it if you had to.

Best of luck and congratulations on choosing a great piece of kit.

[Tsnor]

I bought the machine primarily to cross train and help build a strong base to improve my very recreational running....

What's the best strategy for effective cardio base and endurance training using the RowErg with consideration of below?

Male, 39, 6ft 2, 83 kg, MHR 194, RHR 63 (+/- 3)

• Current Avg Rowing Stats: 6000m sessions, 30:48 mins, 2:34 min/500, 26 s/m, 96W

• Rower Setting: 4, DF 120

• Heart Rate: AvgHR 136, AvgMHR 148, Effort 7 (Feel harder in relation to HR!

Your DF is good, could be lower, don't get much higher.

You are monitoring heart rate. good. Is the MHR set on the rower? Following assumes 194 is correct MEASURED max HR, if not do some intense intervals on the rower and see where you end up. Also, assume you have a HR belt, only a few wrist based optical HR sensors work for rowing. IF using a wrist based optical HR sensor (e.g. garmin watch) check your HR over short rowing intervals. If your HR is flat over end of interval and rest period and start of next interval it's not working correctly and you need a belt. If HR tracks up and down correctly for all intervals you're good.

For cardio base row at 70% of your rowing MHR, so try for 194 * .7 = 135. Try to keep Max HR = average HR, do not peak above 135 (148 max above is not good for base, you're working too hard). Monitor your splits while rowing. You want to keep splits roughly the same for 45 minutes. If starting at HR=135 leads to steadily worsening splits over 45 mins to keep HR under 135 then start with a lower HR. Work up to 135 for 45 minutes. Then play with increasing duration while keeping MHR=average HR < 135. Cross check that you are not working too hard by trying to recite a paragraph. If you can't speak conversationally then you are working too hard for base whatever your HR says. Note also that initially your cardio system will not be the limiting factor, instead your limit will be the capability of rowing specific muscles. So row at very low heart rate until you get your muscles balanced to rowing. Note also, get good form so you don't hurt your back, elbows, wrists as you add long rows. You can easily build up to 5 to 10 hours of base rowing/week, but you cannot jump into that without hurting something.

You are cross training, not just rowing. During base building you want one or two days of hard workouts along with three to four cardio/base only days. For your hard days can mix rowing intervals or hard/long rows with >> 135 HR into your current set of hard workouts which likely will include hard runs and some strength training (typically lifting weights). Put all your hard workouts (running and rowing and lifting) in the SAME one or two days. Your pure base workout days are the rowing cardio described above mixed with long/slow low effort runs, cycling etc.

[JaapvanE]

For cardio base row at 70% of your rowing MHR, so try for 194 * .7 = 135. Try to keep Max HR = average HR, do not peak above 135 (148 max above is not good for base, you're working too hard). Monitor your splits while rowing. You want to keep splits roughly the same for 45 minutes. If starting at HR=135 leads to steadily worsening splits over 45 mins to keep HR under 135 then start with a lower HR. Work up to 135 for 45 minutes. Then play with increasing duration while keeping MHR=average HR < 135. Cross check that you are not working too hard by trying to recite a paragraph. If you can't speak conversationally then you are working too hard for base whatever your HR says.

A practical addition as these numbers are always a bit crude: see how your HR develops throughout the session. If you see it climb a lot (out of the set max), you still might be pushing too hard, and going a bit slower might be wise as well.

[iain]

Unfortunately there is nothing magical about 70%. Some olympic athletes use 65% while others get limited benefit below 75%, but 70% is a good start. If you can row 18k already, this suggests you have a pretty good base. For those reading this that are less fit, you might like to use Heart Rate Reserve ("HRR"), the difference between max & min as some people will find HRmin is >50% HRMax and so any rowing with a proper stroke will quickly exceed 70% max. For these people then they need to build up to rowing significant distances and will benefit from any exercise. After a long break I start with 2k intervals with 3-4 min rest between otherwise HR quickly goes too high for steady state rowing. You must remember most people giving advice are very fit and used to rowing and so what works for them might not work for you initially. I would say trying to stay at a pace where you can mai9ntain a conversation is the best advice. I am convinced that my HR can be maintained at higher levels when unfit due to a lower stroke volume. RPE at HRs that would normally be AT+ are still low! But just because you can easily maintain 75% HRMax initially doesn't mean that you should stick with this as stroke volume increases and this gets harder after a few weeks.

As for harder workouts, depends what you want to do. To get seriously fit these are required, but if you have no wish to optimise rowing times, no reason why you shouldn't just do steady state on rower and do only running on the harder workouts.

[p_b82]

I think the only open question I'd have is what your other activity schedule looks like.

Your HR stays lowish, but at that power output - while good for a long session - is slightly low for the rate imo.
I started with similar sort of of rate/pace and found that rowing more efficiently - higher pace/lower rate - was a lot better for my overall fitness in the long run.

If you're doing other exercise, then keeping the sessions on the easier end of the HR scale will fit more easily with your workload, but if you're doing limited sessions, you can afford to let your HR rise a bit - all about how well you recover from your activities, and the amount of creep in the HR over the session.

I'm unusual compared to many on here, and my 1-1.5hr sustainable HR is ~90% MHR; and I paced my FM attempt, 3+hrs, as an average of ~85% MHR - so just using myself as a sample of 1 to say that the "accepted norms" for HR based training don't always apply, further to what Jaapvan said.

[iain]

...I'm unusual compared to many on here, and my 1-1.5hr sustainable HR is ~90% MHR; and I paced my FM attempt, 3+hrs, as an average of ~85% MHR - so just using myself as a sample of 1 to say that the "accepted norms" for HR based training don't always apply...

I think many can maintain 90% HR for Hr+, it is just that it takes it out of us and requires recovery. I would also expect a full on FM to be 85%+ Max as HRavg. But that takes a week to recover from!

To other schedule, I was confused over AvgMHR. Is that Max HR in that session, or the average of the max HRs hit in any of the 6ks. Max HR is only useful if pace kept fairly constant. If you allowed yourself to accelerate at teh end, this is not that meaningful as long as this is only a short burst.

[Dangerscouse]

I'm unusual compared to many on here, and my 1-1.5hr sustainable HR is ~90% MHR; and I paced my FM attempt, 3+hrs, as an average of ~85% MHR - so just using myself as a sample of 1 to say that the "accepted norms" for HR based training don't always apply, further to what Jaapvan said.

I agree. There's a default that lower is better, but I honestly think that it's all about what is your personal metrics, capacity and capabilities. We are all different and there's so many different possibilities of ideal and detrimental.

I've failed many sessions despite only reaching 90%, and not for a sustained period of time, so it's not something that is definitively true for everyone. Ime, there is a huge amount of nuance to HR.

[alex9026]

I've failed many sessions despite only reaching 90%, and not for a sustained period of time, so it's not something that is definitively true for everyone. Ime, there is a huge amount of nuance to HR.

I haven't trained with a HR monitor in a good ten years or so. I sometimes think it may be to my detriment, but I was driving myself mad with the data/numbers and frustrated when it just outright didn't work. I kind of took the approach of it being one less thing to think about.

Sometimes on the erg now I think I could gain some value out of it, especially as my training is as hit and miss as anyone's! but for anyone going through a period of overthinking their training, you'll be surprised how liberating it can feel going a few weeks without.

[RWAGR]

IME the best use of HRM has been to keep my effort down on steady/ recovery / light days. I row to a strict sub-135 (or whatever) and essentially ignore pace. This helps force me to keep the effort in zone 2 (or whatever) and enhances recovery for push days. On push days, I’ve started not wearing it as much, as I agree w Alex it becomes a distraction and something else to worry about (eg, “wow, my HR is already at 170, there’s no way I can hold this”). On TT days, all the more reason not to wear it!

[Tsnor]

THIS -->

IME the best use of HRM has been to keep my effort down on steady/ recovery / light days. I row to a strict sub-135 (or whatever) and essentially ignore pace. This helps force me to keep the effort in zone 2 (or whatever) and enhances recovery for push days.

Agree. I use HR and split for on long/slow days to stay in zone and verify I'm not cooked. An unexpected split (low or high) gets me thinking.

I also see little value from HRM on intervals or anything hard on erg. Intervals 30 secs on, 90 seconds off HR stays lower than max even when I'm dying. Intervals 40 on, 20 off HR goes way high. I learn nothing from HR in either workout. The only HRM value on hard workouts is if HR stays lower then normal when effort feels hard then you know you are cooked and should back off. Failure to hit max HR is a bad sign of overreach/overtraining.

[wkt_1]

I totally get where you're coming from. HR monitoring seems most useful for steady-state workouts where you can stay within a specific zone. For high-intensity intervals, HR can be misleading due to the rapid changes and delayed response. The variability you mention in short intervals shows how HR might not accurately reflect the intensity or effort in real time. It sounds like you're focusing on perceived effort and pacing, which can be more reliable in those scenarios.