Layback help

[p_b82]

Glad to hear you've stopped some poor form issues and can correct them before too much harm is done.

I don't entirely like hooking my fingers only, as it changes the points of contact on my hands a bit - but you can just change to rest your thumbs on top as a sorta compromise.
Like Df and rate you'll find something that works for you with a enough experimentation!

Rowing strapless can also help with the posture in the stroke, as you have to engage the core much more than hanging off the foot straps as you have to decelerate your body yourself at the finish.
Feels very weird to start with, but I found it really helped me - and continues to do so each time I do a session.

[RWAGR]

I've got a feeling you're going to make very rapid progress. Your desire to improve & learn, coupled with your athletic background are massively encouraging. If you stay patient and humble as you seem to be doing, it will pay dividends in the future.

This. As an ex-professional athlete with a perfect height/weight ratio and a solid build for rowing, I think you can put up some big numbers if you stick with this (and are interested in doing so!).

[Dax46]

You might take a look at this series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzAqt1rHW8M She actually has a series about back pain and how to deal with it while rowing. Might help.

For me, my biggest issue was death gripping the handle (leading to stiff shoulders and neck issues) and roting over the lower back instead of the hips.

I forgot about that. It's definitely worth learning to just hook your fingers over the handle. There are no performance benefits from gripping it tightly, except of course, if you don't, you might let go.

[hikeplusrow]

Using an exaggerated technique - in the form of excessive layback and overstretching at the catch - can cause issues. Ultimately, I think you need to work within your own 'anatomical comfort zone', whatever that currently is.

[phlegmtheorem]

I've gotten this under control for longer distances and lower SPM. I discovered force curves and really improved my power delivery on the drive by practicing technique with the constant feedback at lower SPM. I'm in the process of working on maintaining that technique at higher speeds by rowing negative splits, slowly creeping up my SPM while maintaining the same force curve. I've never had this type of instantaneous data/feedback before and I love it.

Sprinting for me seems to be completely different.

I find that when I try to increase my power significantly I tend to start lengthening my stroke as well. Is this normal? I assume it's not desirable to have different stroke lengths for sprints at the end. Or maybe it only matters if you're on a boat trying to match teammates strokes?

My "normal" all day stroke length is 145ish. When I crank up the watts and try to rip the handle off I'm at 160+.

EDIT: I just read in a different thread that this might be due to more handle acceleration being registered by the machine rather than form or technique issues. This makes a lot of sense to me.

Final dumb unrelated question: for personal records do you have to start at a standstill? Or can you use a split? Is that like starting a race with a running start? I realize that as I improve all of my PBs will probably be from 0 since my physical capabilities will be the limiting factor rather than technique, but I've only begun the process of finding my limits erging.

[phlegmtheorem]

I also recommend that you occasionally keep an eye on your breathing, especially for longer, less intense sessions (the really tough ones are all about survival). I wouldn't be surprised if you end up breathing too shallowly over the course of time. Every few minutes is good.

Also do a shoulder shake at the same time. Tension in parts of your body, especially your shoulders will creep in unnoticed, which also leaks power and energy. Trying to stay loose but tense enough is an art that can be missed off the checklist.

You were spot on with both of these, breathing on the erg is backwards from anything I've ever done - using the compression to exhale does makes sense but I am pre-programmed to exhale while exerting force. I still have to do this consciously and remind myself.

The shoulder tension too. What really resonated with me was the sensation of hanging from a bar through the beginning of the drive. If I'm tensing up I don't get that feeling.

[Elizabeth]

Sprinting for me seems to be completely different.

I find that when I try to increase my power significantly I tend to start lengthening my stroke as well. Is this normal? I assume it's not desirable to have different stroke lengths for sprints at the end. Or maybe it only matters if you're on a boat trying to match teammates strokes?

My "normal" all day stroke length is 145ish. When I crank up the watts and try to rip the handle off I'm at 160+.

EDIT: I just read in a different thread that this might be due to more handle acceleration being registered by the machine rather than form or technique issues. This makes a lot of sense to me.

I've never looked at the stroke length metric, but if you're simply looking at the athlete, I would expect a shorter stroke when sprinting. Phil Clapp recently posted video of his 500m world record that would be a good watch (IG bigphil90, and also on Youtube under Cameron Buchan's account). The key with sprinting - true sprinting - is rating up, and using a partial slide can help to get there. He does it well.

If you're talking about picking up the pace towards the end of a hard piece to leave it all on the field, I will sometimes rate up, and will sometimes put more power into the same stroke rate, it just depends on the day. I don't think there's a big difference in my stroke length when I do the latter. Again, this is visually and not based on metrics. In a boat I just follow stroke seat.

Final dumb unrelated question: for personal records do you have to start at a standstill? Or can you use a split? Is that like starting a race with a running start? I realize that as I improve all of my PBs will probably be from 0 since my physical capabilities will be the limiting factor rather than technique, but I've only begun the process of finding my limits erging.

Standard is from a stopped flywheel. With practice, you should be able to get up to speed in about 3 strokes, more like 5 if you're talking a max watts type of situation.

I've never thought about breathing but think I breathe in on the recovery?

[phlegmtheorem]

I've never looked at the stroke length metric, but if you're simply looking at the athlete, I would expect a shorter stroke when sprinting. Phil Clapp recently posted video of his 500m world record that would be a good watch (IG bigphil90, and also on Youtube under Cameron Buchan's account). The key with sprinting - true sprinting - is rating up, and using a partial slide can help to get there. He does it well.

Wow this is great stuff... I went down the rabbit hole a bit on some of his videos. You're completely right, it's a shorter stroke with emphasis on the hip swing and far less compression at the catch. It makes sense to focus on the "maximum power" part of the stroke with a higher rate. Totally not sustainable for long, but for a real sprint that's not the point anyway.

I also picked up on the final stoke being a short fast one just to cross the 0 mark too, depending on the distance remaining.

Thank you for pointing me in this direction!

[Dangerscouse]

Final dumb unrelated question: for personal records do you have to start at a standstill? Or can you use a split? Is that like starting a race with a running start? I realize that as I improve all of my PBs will probably be from 0 since my physical capabilities will be the limiting factor rather than technique, but I've only begun the process of finding my limits erging.

Yeah, PBs should be done from a standing start imo, but there's no absolute requirement so it can be personal, more so for 5k+ as the benefit is massively diluted over the course of the entire row

[Elizabeth]

I've never looked at the stroke length metric, but if you're simply looking at the athlete, I would expect a shorter stroke when sprinting. Phil Clapp recently posted video of his 500m world record that would be a good watch (IG bigphil90, and also on Youtube under Cameron Buchan's account). The key with sprinting - true sprinting - is rating up, and using a partial slide can help to get there. He does it well.

Wow this is great stuff... I went down the rabbit hole a bit on some of his videos. You're completely right, it's a shorter stroke with emphasis on the hip swing and far less compression at the catch. It makes sense to focus on the "maximum power" part of the stroke with a higher rate. Totally not sustainable for long, but for a real sprint that's not the point anyway.

I also picked up on the final stoke being a short fast one just to cross the 0 mark too, depending on the distance remaining.

Thank you for pointing me in this direction!

Sure! It's absolutely not sustainable for long, and for ~1k pace and up, I use a longer stroke with much more leg emphasis.