Knee cramps and rowing

[SBrowing]

Hi all, sadly, my second thread on here comes off the back of a problem I had this week.

I’m 28, quite slim (trying to build / maintain weight if anything) but fairly fit in terms of walking up steep hills, walking fast and not getting breathless anywhere near as fast as my peers.

I bought my rowing machine to be my single, regular and full body work out for life to counteract my tech desk job. Especially in winter when it’s too dark and freezing to go out walking on the hilly backroads.

However… this week, when squatting down to do a bit of car maintenance, I’m talking lowest part of the cars doors and trying to reach under the bottom edge of them, a slight lean (perhaps a twist but not extreme) brought on the most instant, horrible cramping sensation. Sharp in the way a bad toothache nerve hits your brain! Extremely sharp locking pain. Initially I thought I twisted and that was the issue, but after taking extra care from that moment on, even going straight down brought on the pain. For the last few days, I have a slight ‘muscle pulled’ sort of feeling as it’s been going away.

This evening, at M&S.. kneeling down also slowly with awareness of the soreness on my right knee from earlier in the week it happened again! Being slow… being gentle. Sharp cramp feeling.

What I’m wondering is, firstly, do you think it’s an issue worth going to the GP about? Is it totally unheard of? Or is this normal for someone who whilst being quite active, hasn’t moved or stretched some sort of muscles or joints beyond standard walking for too many years?

Will gently increasing my rowing, cleaning up my technique (or even modifying it to focus MORE on my knee articulation) with time help this, or exercise these muscles or is this a remote exception to all of the other muscles in the legs that rowing exercises?

Btw, my sessions have been limited to 3 times a week max. 10-15 mins on intensity 5 with my machine. Main reason being that I don’t want to spend too long in ‘fat burning’ zone. And I’m also trying to eat more but struggle. I do get around 1400 steady calories from Huel shakes (meaning all categories and vitamins 2 nutrients catered for well) plus another few hundred from some unhealthy foods on the basis that for now, I can afford all the calories I can manage. That’s why I don’t go on more often or for longer sessions. Perhaps maybe I’m not getting a full enough workout from this?

Keen to hear any and all input. I feel like I’m too young to have these physical limitations and that I’m doing something wrong or not doing enough to he already giving into the discomfort, if there’s anything I can do to improve my health to overcome it - perhaps with my exercise and rowing - I want to give it a shot.

[Ombrax]

Based on my personal experience I would consider two options:

1) For the next few weeks avoid any and all activities that would require you to move or apply load to your knee in a manner that might aggravate the situation, and proceed carefully with any activities (e.g. walking for exercise or low intensity rowing) that don't feel like they're making things worse, and see how things go over time and if the problem goes away.

2) See an orthopedic doctor, who will probably order X-rays, maybe an MRI, and provide some initial directions on what you should and should not do until s/he has a more definitive diagnosis.

It seems unlikely to me that this is a classic "cramp" (involuntary shortening of a muscle due to muscle fatigue or insufficient electrolytes) but a connective tissue or meniscus problem that could be caused by local damage.

Caveat: I'm not a "health professional," just a guy who over the years has done quite a bit of cycling, which occasionally induced some knee problems, and a fair amount of erging (which is relatively easy on my knees).

Good Luck

[jamesg]

when squatting down

It's hard to think a cramp is anything other than just that, if you've really had it. Maybe check dietary K and Mg. Cramps are very painful but easy to get rid of since there is no damage. How did you?

Your rowing can create a specific knee problem if the angle closes too much at the catch. This does not happen when cycling or walking. So check technique, specifically posture and the recovery sequence between strokes to keep the knee angle open. A front stop on the rail can help.

Rowing is a power sport and highly repetitive, so the standard style is designed to be effective but not damaging. See here:

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

[Dangerscouse]

I'm also a bit dubious that it's cramp, and it sounds more like an issue with tendons or ligaments, albeit I'm in no way qualified to advise properly. You easily could have hurt your knee if you're still a newbie as tendons and ligaments need time to adjust to the loadings

I recently tweaked my knee and a good quality knee support was helpful, which may or may not be helpful. Tbh, if it's not helpful then maybe that's a good indicator that it's something more serious.

Does it only hurt when you squat / flex the knee? Does it also only hurt when it gets past a specific degree of bend? Is it worse in any specific direction? Is it swollen, if only slightly? It's maybe a good idea to see a physio in the first instance, especially if you can find one who specialises in knees.

[SBrowing]

Thanks for your replies.

It feels more like a pulled muscle in my legs around my knees. Or a muscle behind them / on the back facing side. I can't tell if it's an upper leg muscle somewhere, or top of lower leg.

Where could I generally find more out about how to get to the bottom of this?

Worth visiting a physio?

[jamesg]

Check your style now. A physio could have a long wait time, and might not have specific knowledge of rowing.

[p_b82]

Non-medical here too; but it does sound like it is tendon/ligament damage of some form rather than cramp

I'd echo the rest comment - or at least gentle movements - I'd probably not take my shins as high as vertical and lose some stroke length while things are mending to be on the safe side too.

Prob best to get a dr visit & physio referral though to be better informed about treatment/options.

[Dangerscouse]

Thanks for your replies.

It feels more like a pulled muscle in my legs around my knees. Or a muscle behind them / on the back facing side. I can't tell if it's an upper leg muscle somewhere, or top of lower leg.

Where could I generally find more out about how to get to the bottom of this?

Worth visiting a physio?

I'd guess that a muscle pull would be noticeable all of the time, and not just in specific movements.

I'd look for a physio who preferably understands knees, but it's a very common ailment for a physio, so anyone will be useful.

[iain]

I am not qualified to comment on the knee and agree that a physio sounds a good idea to me. If you do any rowing before it clears up, I would lower the damper to 3 or lower to reduce the load early in the stroke. As for length of session, I would recommend building to some longer sessions if you have the time and once the knee is better, this gives more time to focus on good technique. Weight is better controlled through eating than reducing exercise.

As for the "intensity" of a row, this is independent from the damper setting. The resistance increases with the cube of the speed the handle is pulled. So you can work just as hard on a lower damper setting (with limits) merely by driving a bit faster. To evaluate your training, we need to know how fast the monitor is indicating you are going (or the power output as the 2 are linked by a formula). It would also be useful to know how many stroke you are pulling a minute.

Hope a physio sorts you out quickly.

- Iain

[Dangerscouse]

Thanks for your replies.

It feels more like a pulled muscle in my legs around my knees. Or a muscle behind them / on the back facing side. I can't tell if it's an upper leg muscle somewhere, or top of lower leg.

Where could I generally find more out about how to get to the bottom of this?

Worth visiting a physio?

One other thing that has just occurred to me. Do you hyperextend / lock your legs at the end of the stroke, or do you keep a very slight bend?

[JaapvanE]

The rowing doc made a series about knee pain: https://youtu.be/FhrmN30hn0U