Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

[Dangerscouse]

Hi all, I’ve been following this thread for a few months and I have to say, it’s quite inspirational to read. I’ve been far too shy to post anything until now!

I bought a concept 2 in December to work out in the garage rather than traipsing to the gym daily and saving myself the increasing costs.

Having only ever rowed 2k and 5k in the past I was keen to start doing distance pieces. And looking for tips I came upon this thread and the information has been invaluable. A few weeks ago I completed marathon in 2:56.56. I was over the moon with the effort and although it was a slog, it felt ok, and I’m thinking to train for the 100k.

In summary, just wanted to thank you all.

Also, huge congratulations to Elizabeth Gilmore and Cameron Buchan. I watched the WRICS in Prague. Truly impressive feats.

Anthony

6’4. M. 43. 98KG
2k 7.09
5k 18:52
HM1:23.43
FM 2:56.56

Congratulations Anthony, sub three hours is a result to be proud of. I do think that your HM PB is now looking like slightly low hanging fruit now.

[RWAGR]

Cracking first FM.

Now a few days into recovery and reflection, I really do think the difference between FM and 100k is much bigger than just the meters. It’s also much greater than the difference (say) between a 2k and a FM, IMO. I suppose it’s because in everything up to FM, we’re pushing hard to achieve our pace / race plan, and generally speaking, if you’re well trained and have a fair plan, you can stick to it. For me at least, 100k is totally unpredictable and it’s more of a “just finish” mentality- with hitting pace goals being a bonus. Of course the Elizabeths / Cams of the world operate on a different plane to us mortals, but getting over that psychological hurdle is the challenge of the 100k for me.

I’d be interested in looking at a 50k. From my training row of 60k and my 100k, I feel the 50k is more likely to fit into the FM bucket - ie a distance to attack, rather than just survive like its big brother.

[contdrift86]

Yesterday I completed the 100k.

TLDR: 7:43:28.2. Be happy to finish. Unless you are experienced at ultramarathon efforts, don't target a specific time (I'm not, I did, and it almost cost me).

7:43:28.2 100,000m 2:19.0 130 748 22 138
22:07.9 5,000m 2:12.7 149 814 21 132
22:18.4 10,000m 2:13.8 146 802 21 129
22:19.4 15,000m 2:13.9 146 801 21 128
22:21.2 20,000m 2:14.1 145 799 22 130
22:21.1 25,000m 2:14.1 145 799 21 134
22:22.5 30,000m 2:14.2 145 797 22 131
22:23.6 35,000m 2:14.3 144 796 22 137
22:22.1 40,000m 2:14.2 145 798 22 138
22:21.1 45,000m 2:14.1 145 799 22 138
22:25.8 50,000m 2:14.5 144 794 22 143
22:31.3 55,000m 2:15.1 142 788 23 142
22:35.0 60,000m 2:15.5 141 784 23 142
23:30.6 65,000m 2:21.0 125 729 23 139
24:54.2 70,000m 2:29.4 105 661 22 138
25:01.1 75,000m 2:30.1 103 656 22 135
23:53.3 80,000m 2:23.3 119 709 23 137
25:24.2 85,000m 2:32.4 99 640 22 143
24:28.3 90,000m 2:26.8 111 680 23 143
24:28.8 95,000m 2:26.8 110 680 23 145
23:18.3 100,000m 2:19.8 128 740 24 161

That is an absolutely amazing achievement, congratulations. You should be proud of the effort and results!

[p_b82]

Yesterday I completed the 100k.

TLDR: 7:43:28.2. Be happy to finish. Unless you are experienced at ultramarathon efforts, don't target a specific time (I'm not, I did, and it almost cost me).

missed this while away - congrats!

[RWAGR]

Thx guys!

[GlennUk]

For those of you who have done 100k+ rows: how often, if at all, did you pee? I didn’t go or feel the need to go at all during my 60k, despite taking on (but no doubt sweating out) adequate fluids. Trying to figure out my pit stop strategy for the 100k and whether I need to plan on a trip to the restroom.

I didnt go at all

[GlennUk]

Quick shoutout to 'Elizabeth' (Gilmore) and Andy Tomlinson for destroying the tandem, mixed, 100k world record, yesterday.

Finished it in well under 6 hours.

Avg pace of about 1:45.8.

Bonkers.

Wow, Wow, wow, and its not as if Elizabeth hadnt been quote busy of alte either.

Well done to both, that seems astonishing to me considering that's 50x 2k at my pb!

[GlennUk]

I had a go at an ultra-row, myself yesterday.

I managed 12 hours, and just a touch under 169km (avg. pace of 2:07.9).

Had hoped to maybe target the 24hr WR. But, knew 2 hours in the was out the window and just tried to hold on as long as possible.

Well done, thats a great pace, would have seen you take the WR by a significant margin, hope you recover well. Glenn

[GlennUk]

Yesterday I completed the 100k.

TLDR: 7:43:28.2. Be happy to finish. Unless you are experienced at ultramarathon efforts, don't target a specific time (I'm not, I did, and it almost cost me).

Pre-event and Goals

I got a solid night's sleep, but woke early at 0400 (I usually wake up around 0430). This was fine as I did the row at the gym instead of home to maximize the sights and sounds and human interactions throughout the day (this was the right call, I doubt I have the mental strength to do it at home alone all day). So I drove to the gym with all my stuff and did the set up which took a good 45 mins. I had oiled the erg chains at the gym the day before (you're welcome gym).

My set up was as follows:

8 x 24 oz water bottles with a Tailwind powder in each (half caffeinated, half uncaffeinated). Goal was to drink one every hour to take on the right amount of fluid and also get the 200 calories.

2 x 24 oz water bottles with just electrolyte mix in case I needed that without the glucose

2 x 24 oz water bottles with just water- for when I just needed the taste of plain water!

1 x massive bag of Cadbury mini eggs. As a recovering Brit, I love Mini Eggs with proper Cadbury's chocolate, so I took advantage of my last business trip to London to buy a 1 kg bag at the airport.

2 x large chocolate bars of Cadbury milk chocolate (the mini-egg version of the bars, with crushed mini eggs in side- great!)

1 x large tub of roasted and salted mixed nuts (without peanuts, so cashews, walnuts, pecans, almonds etc.)

About 6 x bananas

2 x headphone sets (ear buds tend to last 4-5 hours out of their case so you need a second one)

Portable charger for phone

Vaseline- used before starting under arms, backs of knees, and ass crack. Didn't need to reapply (thankfully- that would be a really issue!)

Lip balm

Tylenol (This divides opinion and I am not a medical professional but I wasn't going to let soreness get in the way of completion- I had one tablet at the start, and one at 2 hours, 4hours, and 6 hours- it took the edge of any muscle pain and, personally, I'd do it again- note this is Acetaminophen NOT Ibuprofen - the latter is said to have some real risks if used during intense exercise- although I have taken some POST event to reduce swelling- see below). In any case, do you own research on this point.

Grip tape (didn't use)

Seat cushion (didn't use)

Spare change of clothes and shoes (didn't use)

HRM

Overall I felt pretty good pre-event and was ready to go. I'd rowed about ~30k the week before so tapering off, with a couple of modest sessions on the Peloton Bike/ Tread.

My goals. This was fairly simple going in (hahaha). I basically planned to row each 5k at 2.12 splits, then have 30 seconds to drink, eat, whatever. This would make an overall split of 2.15 for each 5k, and 7:30 for the whole piece. It worked well for my longest training row, which was 60k.

First 50k: Smooth Sailing

Went absolutely fine as you would expect when you're pretty highly trained for something. I stuck to my splits well and my HR was drifting up, but under control. I wasn't bored from the music. Hydration and nutrition were on point.

50k-60k: Family Visit and Warning Signs?

I still felt good-ish in this stretch. My splits started to fall off just a bit, but I figured this is because I was a little distracted when my wife and kids came to visit. I was messing up my rhythm to pose for photos with them, etc. In hindsight, and given that this 10k stretch hurt when I did the 60k training row, the family visit might have served to mask the first signs of trouble. All in all though, I was still on track as I'd built a little cushion in that first 50k so 5k splits in the 2.15s were acceptable.

60k-80k: Off A Cliff

Then the wheels came off, I fell off the cliff, I hit the wall, pick whatever metaphor for being totally fucked you like... Those 20k were the hardest I have ever spent on an erg. Cardio was fine as you can see from the HR. But the cramps and mind games just took this to a new level of horrible. My splits cratered. I had to stand up for the first time - and once I started doing that I stood up at pretty much every 5k rest. I also started taking interim rests every 2.5k for more hydration and/or nutrition. The mind games were very convincing "just stop bro, you've rowed 70, 75k that is a HUGE achievement, everyone will be proud" or "you're really damaging yourself now and you can't get this done". Horrific. TBH it's still so soon after the event I'm not entirely sure how I got through this stretch but of course I did and am glad for it.

This brings me to the biggest mental challenge of the day which was letting go of my 7:30 goal. As soon as the splits started falling off I knew that was toast and the projected finish crept up mercilessly. Like many of you I'm sure on many normal distance or time pieces when I start failing to hit a target it often leads to a mental spiral and a HD. Even though logically of course we get more benefit from sticking it out and being a split or a few seconds short of a target, our minds tell us it's not worth it. Resetting that mental attitude in the middle of a physical collapse was by far the hardest part of the day for me. Happily I managed to, as I knew I wouldn't be coming here again so I had to re-set 7:30 goal to a "just finish" goal (of course I had 8:00 in my head, and tbh I had to beat that by default as physically I couldn't have continued beyond 8 hours).

On the physical side, the worst issue was cramps. Maybe my electrolyte balance was off, but from around 65k to the end I had some form of cramp pretty much every stoke of the erg. Luckily different parts cramped in waves, thighs and forearms being the worst, so I could grind through it with plenty of stops. I had no ass pain - Vaseline at the start of the race took care of that. I was never in cardio trouble. I did have some soreness in the upper and lower back and hamstrings, but nothing devastating and the Tylenol helped (see caveat above!).

I tried to pee 4 or 5 time but never needed to go. The break of running to the loo was helpful, but I could never squeeze anything out. I didn't feel dehydrated but maybe the cramps tell a different story. Either way my bodily functions gradually returned to normal in the 4 hours post race.

On the food side, I got sick of chocolate. Bananas were probably the hero of my nutrition - easy to eat and convinced myself that the Potassium helped with the cramps. Having a bit of bananas with a handful of nuts was a nice mouthful with lots of calories and energy.

80k-90k: Light At The End of the Tunnel

This 10k stretch was a little better. I was still horribly slow, but I had won the mental battle of resetting expectations and I pretty much knew that at this point, absent a total physical collapse, I was going to finish. It was still horrible but as I'd won that mental battle, I had no issues with backing the pace right off for a few strokes when I felt I needed, taking extra drinks, etc.

I had no hands issues during the row but right at 89,900m I felt a huge blister (that I hadn't even noticed forming) erupt on my hand, spraying blister juice (yum) all over my hand. It actually made me laugh at the time as my hands hadn't really joined the party of giving me trouble to that point. They still didn't really after that one incident. They are a bit of a mess today- I'd say I have 3-4 new blisters. Overall though I'm happy I didn't use grip tape either for this event or for training- much better to build the callouses. Of course when I have a fresh/ open blister I use tape if I'm rowing or lifting so my lifting sessions for the next week will involve it!

90k-95k: Grinding

This was just grinding it out at this point. Finishing not in doubt.

95k-100k: Almost Fun?

Dare I say it, I almost enjoyed the final 5k. The wife and kids came back and randoms in the gym were cheering me on. Of course my body was toast but I didn't care at this point. I managed to pick up the pace and just enjoy what I'd achieved. Right at the end of the final stroke my finger cramped which was really, really horrible haha.

Post-Race

I couldn't stand up straight for a while. I smashed 2 double protein shakes immediately. Adrenaline meant I was fine for an hour or so to clean up and hop in the shower and drive home. I lost 2 lbs during the race this tells me my nutrition and hydration were pretty much on point (people say you should try and minimize weight loss during endurance events, although some is inevitable and if you don't lose any, you might be over-feeding/ drinking). If I did it again I'd want to focus on the right electrolyte balance as the cramps were the single biggest physical issue.

Once I got home I basically lay on the couch. As the adrenaline war off I felt totally exhausted. I smashed two Greek gyros and a large fries and just relaxed. I actually had quite a bad night's sleep. It's weird, I was exhausted but not sleepy- presumably the last of the adrenaline coursing through my system. Nevertheless, although I woke up a bunch and was thirsty throughout the night, I was in bed for 9 hours so got some rest.

This morning I have no trouble walking. A little residual soreness and my hands are now letting me know what they went through, but I'll have a totally normal day and will be back to lifting tomorrow. I'll probably do a gentle erg on Tuesday and report on how it was.

Any questions, don't hesitate to ask! I have a bunch of photos of most of the story above if anyone's interested I can email them if you PM me; can't figure out how to have the Forum site let me post them as it says they are all too large. Here are the full splits for posterity:

7:43:28.2 100,000m 2:19.0 130 748 22 138
22:07.9 5,000m 2:12.7 149 814 21 132
22:18.4 10,000m 2:13.8 146 802 21 129
22:19.4 15,000m 2:13.9 146 801 21 128
22:21.2 20,000m 2:14.1 145 799 22 130
22:21.1 25,000m 2:14.1 145 799 21 134
22:22.5 30,000m 2:14.2 145 797 22 131
22:23.6 35,000m 2:14.3 144 796 22 137
22:22.1 40,000m 2:14.2 145 798 22 138
22:21.1 45,000m 2:14.1 145 799 22 138
22:25.8 50,000m 2:14.5 144 794 22 143
22:31.3 55,000m 2:15.1 142 788 23 142
22:35.0 60,000m 2:15.5 141 784 23 142
23:30.6 65,000m 2:21.0 125 729 23 139
24:54.2 70,000m 2:29.4 105 661 22 138
25:01.1 75,000m 2:30.1 103 656 22 135
23:53.3 80,000m 2:23.3 119 709 23 137
25:24.2 85,000m 2:32.4 99 640 22 143
24:28.3 90,000m 2:26.8 111 680 23 143
24:28.8 95,000m 2:26.8 110 680 23 145
23:18.3 100,000m 2:19.8 128 740 24 161

Congrats on completing and i can see so many parallels with my row, i know yor pain, my mental battle started with 42jk to go (i did 116k so around 70k in), i had to get off the erg after 9.5hrs when i got PITA and like you ended up getting on and off.

My approach was a totally alone in our home gym. My wife popped out once or twice just to make sure i was still alive (i was 61, she worries!!), i couldn't have coped with a gym and 'people' no matter how loving.

Competing the event for the 1st time is a major milestone IMHO, whilst i can feel your pain reading your report, i know this will make you a better rower, the mental toughness to keep going when things are not going to plan is a key attribute for all events, even a 100m.

Copngrats once again.

[GlennUk]

For the most part, we did Andy 550m then me 450m. We had a couple of stints at 1100/900 to allow toilet breaks and replenishing snacks, but I found that these seemed to add fatigue a lot faster. Andy didn't have the same perception but was fine keeping it shorter.

I find it astonishing that not only that you both managed to keep to this pace, but for me, this comes so quickly off the back of your performance in Prague.

Congrats and well done for all the sheer hard work that these efforts must take consistently to achieve what you did and no doubt Andy does too.

[GlennUk]

Cracking first FM.

Now a few days into recovery and reflection, I really do think the difference between FM and 100k is much bigger than just the meters. It’s also much greater than the difference (say) between a 2k and a FM, IMO. I suppose it’s because in everything up to FM, we’re pushing hard to achieve our pace / race plan, and generally speaking, if you’re well trained and have a fair plan, you can stick to it. For me at least, 100k is totally unpredictable and it’s more of a “just finish” mentality- with hitting pace goals being a bonus. Of course the Elizabeths / Cams of the world operate on a different plane to us mortals, but getting over that psychological hurdle is the challenge of the 100k for me.

I’d be interested in looking at a 50k. From my training row of 60k and my 100k, I feel the 50k is more likely to fit into the FM bucket - ie a distance to attack, rather than just survive like its big brother.

Id say the mental barriers hit me with 42K to go, since before i started training for the 116k i did, i had never rowed the FM, i rowed several during training but psychologically having rowed 70k and seeing PM5 hit that mark it felt like time stood still and the metres dropped so slowly.

Whereas when compared with shorter distances, even up to FM, most of us will be familiar with those distances even if pushing hard.

I think its the 'fear' of the unknown, and once it becomes 'known' it either becomes something you would never contemplate doing again, or else it provides information about how to tackle the event again. Speaking personally i intend at some stage to tackle a 24hr row, but it will be as you suggested in your report, to finish!!

[p_b82]

QQ for folks that have done a FM.

I completed a 30k training row last night, and ID'd a few more tweaks I need to apply before the main event (2.5 weeks out now) - better finger wrapping, add another protective layer to the balls of my feet (rowing in just socks) & try to use my arms a little less overall.

But I understand that common wisdom is that if you can do 30k, you can do 42k - I'm loosely planning on doing 36k in 8/9 days time; which would leave another 9/10 days until the FM attempt.

It would be my last "dress rehearsal" and then no more changes to the process - bar a very minor tweaks like snack fruit/food options on the day.

Does this sounds sensible to folks in general, or is it better to not go quite so far relatively close to the end?

Trying to decide the risk/reward of potential injury vs added benefit of really knowing what it will feel like in that last hour.

[GlennUk]

There are differing plans, i followed the Eddie Fletcher FM plan, the longest session was 90mins, with one being completed in the final week of training, as well as 2 x 30mins sessions over the week..

My las FM was 3hrs 11mins so it equated to roughly half distance for me.

Not sure what others do, id say whatever you feel comfortable with,

[iain]

FMs vary for me so not sure that there is much advantage. Sometimes things get tough between 32k and the end, sometimes I have gone through accelerating to the finish. Also the tough bit of the end is the distance that needs to be endured when hurting, having some pain start a few k before the end wouldn't be a preparation and might lead to doubts that need to be faced on the day. If you are changing anything 'though, I would row HM in the final kit to make sure you are happy with it.

Good luck.

[Dangerscouse]

But I understand that common wisdom is that if you can do 30k, you can do 42k - I'm loosely planning on doing 36k in 8/9 days time; which would leave another 9/10 days until the FM attempt.

Imo, theoretically if you can do 30k you can do an FM, but you're also essentially training for the last 10k of an FM, as that's the potential minefield.

I personally found a 35k session was a good idea, admittedly it's a double edged sword: if it goes well, it's a confidence boost, if it goes badly it's tough to blank it out.

It probably boils down to how confident you are, do you feel like it will help, and what is your rate of recovery? Given your recent back issue I'd be at least slightly cautious about it, but it could also be just what your back & mind needs, especially if you're still worrying a bit about it.

How did you feel after your 30k? I think that will be a big part of your decision making