Chain recoil issue/no "bite" at catch

[row23]

Hello,
I know this is a pretty common issue but I haven't been able to find anything about this specific issue at this part of the stroke, so apologies if I'm making an unnecessary post.

I have an older Model D from 2009 (PM3) that has been rowed extensively with well over 2 million meters on it. It's generally in pretty good shape and I have been long-term "borrowing" it from a friend who isn't using it right now for the past 2 years.

The problem is: When at the catch, the first 3-5 inches of the drive have no "bite"/tension. It's like it takes the erg a full second to realize that I'm pulling on it and being to tense up appropriately. It feels like you're whiffing/missing the first few inches of the stroke. It's definitely noticeable when rowing static but it's especially miserable when using slides, and it's starting to affect my technique. However, the reason I can't find anything on this issue is because during the rest of the drive/recovery, the recoil function is fine. It's only in those first few inches that it has no tension.

I know it's not my technique because I don't have this issue when rowing on newer C2s, and I'm not the only one who noticed this issue so it's not just me being crazy Has anyone else experienced this problem/have an idea for a fix? My thinking was that maybe I would need to buy a new shock cord. The chain has been oiled regularly so I know that's not the issue, drag factor has been at a 110-115 for the past 2 years, and the former owners were rowers so I know they likely treated the erg well. Any suggestions are appreciated, thanks in advance!

[jackarabit]

1-way clutch bearing in the flywheel ain’t “clutching”—delayed engagement with main shaft; flush out old lube grease and relube. Known issue which can be searched for details of flywheel removal and correction/freeing up of bearing operation.

[Carl Watts]

As above the clutch bearing gets "Lazy" and is slow to engage, the grease in it could have thickened up or a clean of the shaft and a few drops of oil may fix it.

Replacing the bearing is beyond the average person, you need to make a custom bearing puller. I replaced the standard nylon bearing with the stainless steel spring version it has faster engagement.

You can possibly save yours because you have caught it early, once they start to let go completely its usually too late.

[Willy.VdW]

Is it to be expected that the clutch starts to fail after 2 million meters?

[Sakly]

Is it to be expected that the clutch starts to fail after 2 million meters?

Definitely not, my erg gets near to 5mm and feels like new (2 years old).
I think it is more related to age of the rower and less usage, so the grease thickens up a bit probably.

[nick rockliff]

Is it to be expected that the clutch starts to fail after 2 million meters?

Definitely not, my erg gets near to 5mm and feels like new (2 years old).
I think it is more related to age of the rower and less usage, so the grease thickens up a bit probably.

Mines 19 years old and had a new front end under warranty after 12 months. So, clutch bearing is 18 years old and probably done 60 million metres. All it needs is the old grease removing and re oiled.

[Sakly]

Is it to be expected that the clutch starts to fail after 2 million meters?

Definitely not, my erg gets near to 5mm and feels like new (2 years old).
I think it is more related to age of the rower and less usage, so the grease thickens up a bit probably.

Mines 19 years old and had a new front end under warranty after 12 months. So, clutch bearing is 18 years old and probably done 60 million metres. All it needs is the old grease removing and re oiled.

But you used your erg all the years, so thickening will probably be slower due to the constant movement.
In the end we all agree to remove and re-oil

[nick rockliff]

Definitely not, my erg gets near to 5mm and feels like new (2 years old).
I think it is more related to age of the rower and less usage, so the grease thickens up a bit probably.

Mines 19 years old and had a new front end under warranty after 12 months. So, clutch bearing is 18 years old and probably done 60 million metres. All it needs is the old grease removing and re oiled.

But you used your erg all the years, so thickening will probably be slower due to the constant movement.
In the end we all agree to remove and re-oil

Mine usually slipped in cold weather when the grease goes hard. Used to row 95% outdoors in all weather.

[Sakly]

Mines 19 years old and had a new front end under warranty after 12 months. So, clutch bearing is 18 years old and probably done 60 million metres. All it needs is the old grease removing and re oiled.

But you used your erg all the years, so thickening will probably be slower due to the constant movement.
In the end we all agree to remove and re-oil

Mine usually slipped in cold weather when the grease goes hard. Used to row 95% outdoors in all weather.

Oh wow, that means harsh conditions for the rower
In my basement it never gets below 11-12°C during winter. I assume this is no problem at all for the grease as well as for mechanical parts (or the PM5).

[Willy.VdW]

Thanks for the reassuring replies

[row23]

1-way clutch bearing in the flywheel ain’t “clutching”—delayed engagement with main shaft; flush out old lube grease and relube. Known issue which can be searched for details of flywheel removal and correction/freeing up of bearing operation.

So it sounds like a removing and re-oiling is in the schedule for this weekend. I read on another forum that you can use a toothbrush to gently scrub down the chain and then re-oil it. I'm hoping that fixes it, if not I'll undertake replacing the clutch bearing.

This might be kind of a dumb question but as I've never disassembled an erg before...when I remove and re-oil the chain, do I need to take the whole chain housing out from the underside of the erg and clean it, then reinstall it in the erg? Or can I just pull the chain out as far as it goes, wipe it off, re-oil it, and then put it back in as usual?

Thanks for the suggestions, definitely wouldn't have come to that conclusion on my own.

[Carl Watts]

To oil the chain pull it out so you can get to the part that that goes round the sprocket when the chain is in the holder and oil it as it gets pulled back inside the rower. Use the oil that is supplied with a new rower or 3 in 1 . The silicone stuff you can get in a spray can would also be good, they are all clear.

The bearing can just fail at random, the one on my Model C is still going the one on my model D failed quite early and I replaced it. The need some thin grease once a year and you may never have a problem with it for a lifetime. I use some Superlube synthetic grease these days, its just the right viscosity.

[Tsnor]

1-way clutch bearing in the flywheel ain’t “clutching”—delayed engagement with main shaft; flush out old lube grease and relube. Known issue which can be searched for details of flywheel removal and correction/freeing up of bearing operation.

So it sounds like a removing and re-oiling is in the schedule for this weekend. I read on another forum that you can use a toothbrush to gently scrub down the chain and then re-oil it. I'm hoping that fixes it, if not I'll undertake replacing the clutch bearing.

This might be kind of a dumb question but as I've never disassembled an erg before...when I remove and re-oil the chain, do I need to take the whole chain housing out from the underside of the erg and clean it, then reinstall it in the erg? Or can I just pull the chain out as far as it goes, wipe it off, re-oil it, and then put it back in as usual?

Thanks for the suggestions, definitely wouldn't have come to that conclusion on my own.

think 2 different things going on here.

1. Oiling the chain is good. But that is *not* related to oiling the 1-way clutch. To oil chain you do *not* need to remove chain. Just have someone pull it out slowing while you wipe it with a rag with 3inONE or your favorite oil. You need to oil the chain, and at 2M meter it should have been done several times, but it is not related to the clutch slipping. You can also use something like "Finish Line No Drip Chain Luber" which is easier than oil and rag.

2. the clutch you need to fix is in the flywheel bearing. It is *not* standard concept2 maintenance, but as posts above say it happens. Read some of the older forum posts that give detailed instructions. I've never needed to do this so am not going to try to repeat them. Here is one short video that gives details, however follow forum advice if it differs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxuIKL0b_uk You can also try oiling it without pulling the flywheel like this guy does https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUj80NH9Dgc&t=820s if you are not comfortable taking the flywheel off.

(note while you are in there oiling the clutch you can also clean the screen - you've done all the work of disassembly you just need to wipe the screen with a brush or cloth. Expect a higher drag factor next time you use the machine after screen cleaning so set your damper to a lower number to get the same feel. After 2m meter the screen is starting to get dirty which will give you a softer pull vs a clean screen. This is not to fix your slipping problem, this is normal maintenance).

If oiling the clutch doesn't fix the problem contact Concept2 support before you buy anything, part failure at 2m meters is not common and C2 support often does what's right rather than letter of the law. The nuclear option is to buy a new flywheel. You learned how to remove/install the flywheel when you oiled it. You can buy a new flywheel and install it the same way. There are also options to replace the bearing or have a machine shop replace the bearing, but flywheel is pretty cheap.

[Ombrax]

Whatever you do, if you're in there poking around, DO NOT move or otherwise displace the balance weights on the flywheel. You'll then be faced with trying to re-balance it, which won't be fun and might well be impossible for regular DIY types like us. (I've never had to do it myself.)

[row23]

1-way clutch bearing in the flywheel ain’t “clutching”—delayed engagement with main shaft; flush out old lube grease and relube. Known issue which can be searched for details of flywheel removal and correction/freeing up of bearing operation.

So it sounds like a removing and re-oiling is in the schedule for this weekend. I read on another forum that you can use a toothbrush to gently scrub down the chain and then re-oil it. I'm hoping that fixes it, if not I'll undertake replacing the clutch bearing.

This might be kind of a dumb question but as I've never disassembled an erg before...when I remove and re-oil the chain, do I need to take the whole chain housing out from the underside of the erg and clean it, then reinstall it in the erg? Or can I just pull the chain out as far as it goes, wipe it off, re-oil it, and then put it back in as usual?

Thanks for the suggestions, definitely wouldn't have come to that conclusion on my own.

think 2 different things going on here.

1. Oiling the chain is good. But that is *not* related to oiling the 1-way clutch. To oil chain you do *not* need to remove chain. Just have someone pull it out slowing while you wipe it with a rag with 3inONE or your favorite oil. You need to oil the chain, and at 2M meter it should have been done several times, but it is not related to the clutch slipping. You can also use something like "Finish Line No Drip Chain Luber" which is easier than oil and rag.

2. the clutch you need to fix is in the flywheel bearing. It is *not* standard concept2 maintenance, but as posts above say it happens. Read some of the older forum posts that give detailed instructions. I've never needed to do this so am not going to try to repeat them. Here is one short video that gives details, however follow forum advice if it differs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxuIKL0b_uk You can also try oiling it without pulling the flywheel like this guy does https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUj80NH9Dgc&t=820s if you are not comfortable taking the flywheel off.

Excellent. I've oiled the chain like that before; should be pretty simple to do it again. I usually use some oil that claims to be specially for ergs, not quite sure what it is but it came with the erg. I've found the clutch part I need on the C2 website as well. I'll try this all out and see how it works.

I've read about the horrors of trying to re-balance the flywheel...I'll avoid that at all costs!