Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

[Dangerscouse]

What sort of stuff do you guys and gals do for the hard workouts? I know some here do solely UT2 with a lot of time behind it, others do a mix of long form SS and something sharper, just wondering how sharp on average. Especially for extreme endurance. We talking 8x500 500W intervals or like AT work at the max?

I agree with Cam, and the only difference, IME, was the times I'd have to rein in some of the intense sessions due to lack of recovery, otherwise it's fairly similar.

The basic construction of training is very useful for any session, assuming that you're training lactic tolerance for short stuff and training your fear and loathing for the longer distances.

[Elizabeth]

When I finished the 50K, I honestly felt pretty mangled. I had lots of reasons to not be top form that day (3 hours sleep on a couch night before, baby waking up multiple times, blah blah), but did not feel ready to do another 50. I'm hoping there is a mental aspect to it, in that the last 5k of any long row will hurt, because it's the last 5k and you're almost there. During the 100k I'm hoping to not notice too much when I'm getting to 50k and still be feeling OK. Is that wishful thinking? Or am I going to be in a dark dark place for 50km?

Im not planning on a seat cushion or gloves. Hasn't been an issue so far. Is that foolish?

Hey Ollie, it sounds like you have nutrition that's worked well for you on other endurance efforts, and it makes sense to me to stick with that. Tailwind is made for this kind of stuff.

It won't feel okay 50k in. But I find that it's a steady amount of not-okay. It doesn't necessarily get worse, you just have to ride through it.

It's also immensely helpful to stay in the moment. With 50k left, you don't need to go another 50k. You need to go another 5k, or another 10 minutes, or whatever chunk seems manageable. And even with the hurt you can likely do that. Get through the current bit. Then repeat.

I did not use a seat pad or gloves. The worst of my superficial issues this time was actually armpit chafing, and I am beginning to wonder (6 weeks later) if I have developed some scar tissue.

[btlifter]

When I finished the 50K, I honestly felt pretty mangled. I had lots of reasons to not be top form that day (3 hours sleep on a couch night before, baby waking up multiple times, blah blah), but did not feel ready to do another 50. I'm hoping there is a mental aspect to it, in that the last 5k of any long row will hurt, because it's the last 5k and you're almost there. During the 100k I'm hoping to not notice too much when I'm getting to 50k and still be feeling OK. Is that wishful thinking? Or am I going to be in a dark dark place for 50km?

Im not planning on a seat cushion or gloves. Hasn't been an issue so far. Is that foolish?

Hey Ollie, it sounds like you have nutrition that's worked well for you on other endurance efforts, and it makes sense to me to stick with that. Tailwind is made for this kind of stuff.

It won't feel okay 50k in. But I find that it's a steady amount of not-okay. It doesn't necessarily get worse, you just have to ride through it.

It's also immensely helpful to stay in the moment. With 50k left, you don't need to go another 50k. You need to go another 5k, or another 10 minutes, or whatever chunk seems manageable. And even with the hurt you can likely do that. Get through the current bit. Then repeat.

I did not use a seat pad or gloves. The worst of my superficial issues this time was actually armpit chafing, and I am beginning to wonder (6 weeks later) if I have developed some scar tissue.

Offering a counter-perspective.... I actually felt nearly okay 50k in (well, almost... I was okay until somehwere north of 45 tho). But, shortly after, my body hit a wall hard.... one that I wasn't able to recover from, and I was unable to complete the 100k. Several contributing factors, but nutrition/hydration was likely top of the list.

...Elizabeth also would have benefited from some gosh darn corn starch.

[Dangerscouse]

This highlights the sheer minefield that it is from 50k onwards. There's no way of really knowing what to expect, but if you prepare for the worst, it makes it a bit more manageable.

As Victor Frankl says, "When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves." You can choose, at least to some extent, quite how much you perceive the discomfort. Admittedly, this won't always be the solution, and you may just not be able to continue for whatever reason but if at all possible don't let it be because you chose to HD.

[agross29]

I just completed 100km on the Ski erg (9:11:21/ 8th of 8) yesterday and 100km on the rower (8:52:59 / 27th of 56) on Christmas. Here’s what I learned as a below average (based on ranked times in general) athlete:
1. Its not about physical fitness as much as it is mental
2. Go out with a planned split at a reasonable zone 2 pace and stick with it
3. Eating early and often is critical. I wouldnt over think it. I consumed about 300-500 calories per hour alternating between Oreos and almond m&ms. Hydrated with Liquid IV. Added a shot of pickle juice or Pepsi every now and again. Breaking the consumption into 20min blocks helped quite a bit in terms of the mental piece. I also had a couple bananas and Cheetos. Basically stuff you’d find at a cycling event aid station.
4. Prep it all so you have easy access to everything.
5. You’re going to be there a while so make sure if you have family or others that you have commitments to, they are ok with it so you can limit distractions
6. Go into it knowing its gonna hurt. You have to know the difference between pain and injury.
7. Dont forget about ventilation and climate control. For me it was winter in a garage so I had a couple space heaters.
8. Submit your pin request in the logbook challenges section, because afterall, isn’t that the whole reason for doing it??

[GlennUk]

The Eddie Fletcher training plan mixes in shorter, harder efforts been a while so cant recall the precise details. Save to say that the focus is not on speed per se, but in HR/Spm, with the pace falling out of that.

[ericMX73]

I have ankle issues too, like Ollie. With a plate and 5 screws in my right ankle (motocross injury),it will start to ache with too much ankle flexion. I focus on keeping my shins vertical with each and every stroke. I made it through the 100k with no pain there.

Looking at the doing the entire 100k is a pretty daunting task, especially when you're staring at the PM5 with 1 interval set at 100,000 meters. I chose to look at it in small bites. It's much more tolerable mentally when seen in small pieces. I approached the day in 25k (2 hour) segments only. I mentally broke each 25k down into 2 x 10k sessions plus a 5k, then I planned to get up drink/eat and stretch.

I've had some pretty awful days at work where I would just stay focused on the task at hand to make it to the morning break. I would try to have some treat to look forward to at the break. Then stay focused and work till lunch. Again, some nice food treat waiting for me at lunch. Then back to focus on the tasks and make it to afternoon break and food treat. It's the only way I could make it through the day. If I thought about the work day as a whole, I would crumble mentally and be overwhelmed. So I saw the 100k like a bad day at work, broke it down into 2 hour pieces and just approached the day in small increments.

The longer you go, the smaller bites you take ...

25K morning break
50k lunch break
75k afternoon break
100k clean up job site and go home

[ericMX73]

I just completed 100km on the Ski erg (9:11:21/ 8th of 8) yesterday and 100km on the rower (8:52:59 / 27th of 56) on Christmas. Here’s what I learned as a below average (based on ranked times in general) athlete:
1. Its not about physical fitness as much as it is mental
2. Go out with a planned split at a reasonable zone 2 pace and stick with it
3. Eating early and often is critical. I wouldnt over think it. I consumed about 300-500 calories per hour alternating between Oreos and almond m&ms. Hydrated with Liquid IV. Added a shot of pickle juice or Pepsi every now and again. Breaking the consumption into 20min blocks helped quite a bit in terms of the mental piece. I also had a couple bananas and Cheetos. Basically stuff you’d find at a cycling event aid station.
4. Prep it all so you have easy access to everything.
5. You’re going to be there a while so make sure if you have family or others that you have commitments to, they are ok with it so you can limit distractions
6. Go into it knowing its gonna hurt. You have to know the difference between pain and injury.
7. Dont forget about ventilation and climate control. For me it was winter in a garage so I had a couple space heaters.
8. Submit your pin request in the logbook challenges section, because afterall, isn’t that the whole reason for doing it??

Great advise here!

Regarding #7 ... My garage was 55-57f (~13c) for the first 6 hours of my 100k and the cold air really helped keep my heart rate and perspiration down.

[RWAGR]

Rowed a marathon today as a milestone training session for my 100k (which I'm planning to do 5 weeks from today). A good piece- beat my PB by 47.5". Worked hard but never really at my max until the last 2,195 where I picked it up to take as much time off my prior marathon as possible. Got through two sachets of tailwind - had drinks every 30 min and a few squares of chocolate as 15 min rewards in the middle 90 min. All in all this bodes well for the physical side of the 100k- I think I have the fitness to get it done. It's just a question of two mental hurdles: (i) the boredom and mind games of sheer time on the erg; and (ii) the discipline of rowing at a much more moderate pace to ensure that I have plenty in the tank for the back 50k of the piece.

2:51:37.3 42,195m 2:02.0 193 963 22 155
40:53.3 10,000m 2:02.6 190 952 21 148
40:54.0 20,000m 2:02.7 189 952 22 147
40:54.0 30,000m 2:02.7 189 952 22 155
40:30.3 40,000m 2:01.5 195 971 23 166
8:25.7 42,195m 1:55.1 229 1088 25 175

[alex9026]

Rowed a marathon today as a milestone training session for my 100k (which I'm planning to do 5 weeks from today). A good piece- beat my PB by 47.5". Worked hard but never really at my max until the last 2,195 where I picked it up to take as much time off my prior marathon as possible. Got through two sachets of tailwind - had drinks every 30 min and a few squares of chocolate as 15 min rewards in the middle 90 min. All in all this bodes well for the physical side of the 100k- I think I have the fitness to get it done. It's just a question of two mental hurdles: (i) the boredom and mind games of sheer time on the erg; and (ii) the discipline of rowing at a much more moderate pace to ensure that I have plenty in the tank for the back 50k of the piece.

2:51:37.3 42,195m 2:02.0 193 963 22 155
40:53.3 10,000m 2:02.6 190 952 21 148
40:54.0 20,000m 2:02.7 189 952 22 147
40:54.0 30,000m 2:02.7 189 952 22 155
40:30.3 40,000m 2:01.5 195 971 23 166
8:25.7 42,195m 1:55.1 229 1088 25 175

That is a very strong final 2k to close.

[Dangerscouse]

Rowed a marathon today as a milestone training session for my 100k (which I'm planning to do 5 weeks from today). A good piece- beat my PB by 47.5". Worked hard but never really at my max until the last 2,195 where I picked it up to take as much time off my prior marathon as possible. Got through two sachets of tailwind - had drinks every 30 min and a few squares of chocolate as 15 min rewards in the middle 90 min. All in all this bodes well for the physical side of the 100k- I think I have the fitness to get it done. It's just a question of two mental hurdles: (i) the boredom and mind games of sheer time on the erg; and (ii) the discipline of rowing at a much more moderate pace to ensure that I have plenty in the tank for the back 50k of the piece.

2:51:37.3 42,195m 2:02.0 193 963 22 155
40:53.3 10,000m 2:02.6 190 952 21 148
40:54.0 20,000m 2:02.7 189 952 22 147
40:54.0 30,000m 2:02.7 189 952 22 155
40:30.3 40,000m 2:01.5 195 971 23 166
8:25.7 42,195m 1:55.1 229 1088 25 175

Great result Rob. Well done.

The 100k is definitely a different beast, and it is vital that you control the urge to go too fast too soon. Quite what is too fast, is a tough one to gauge as so many unpredictable things can happen when you get over circa 65k.

[Sakly]

Rowed a marathon today as a milestone training session for my 100k (which I'm planning to do 5 weeks from today). A good piece- beat my PB by 47.5". Worked hard but never really at my max until the last 2,195 where I picked it up to take as much time off my prior marathon as possible. Got through two sachets of tailwind - had drinks every 30 min and a few squares of chocolate as 15 min rewards in the middle 90 min. All in all this bodes well for the physical side of the 100k- I think I have the fitness to get it done. It's just a question of two mental hurdles: (i) the boredom and mind games of sheer time on the erg; and (ii) the discipline of rowing at a much more moderate pace to ensure that I have plenty in the tank for the back 50k of the piece.

2:51:37.3 42,195m 2:02.0 193 963 22 155
40:53.3 10,000m 2:02.6 190 952 21 148
40:54.0 20,000m 2:02.7 189 952 22 147
40:54.0 30,000m 2:02.7 189 952 22 155
40:30.3 40,000m 2:01.5 195 971 23 166
8:25.7 42,195m 1:55.1 229 1088 25 175

Great FM, Rob
Really nice finish for the last 2k, shows your fitness is very good.
As I only did a FM myself as longest distance, I cannot help with tips for your plans, but it seems that fitness will not be a problem!

[RWAGR]

Thanks lads

[penkethj]

Does anyone have any advice on how I can move my marathon PB from 3 hrs 14 mins to sub 3 hrs??

For some context I did my first marathon a couple of months ago. Finished in 3 hrs 14 mins which was a 2:18 pace. A couple of weeks later I did my first 50k in 3 hrs 49 mins which was 2:17.8 pace.
I have a HM PB of 1 hr 26 mins which was 2:02.4 pace.

Now to go sub 3 hrs in the marathon you have to hit a 2:07.9 pace. So today I thought I’d try doing 25km at that pace. This is the result;

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
1:46:10.4 25,000m 2:07.4 169 882 26 152
21:09.0 5,000m 2:06.9 171 889 26 153
21:08.7 10,000m 2:06.8 171 889 26 154
21:14.4 15,000m 2:07.4 169 881 26 153
21:20.1 20,000m 2:08.0 167 874 26 150
21:18.2 25,000m 2:07.8 168 876 27 151

Felt ok for lots of it but was def feeling it a bit at the end.

Now to get from where I currently am to a sub 3 hr marathon I was thinking of having a crack at 30km at this pace in a couple of weeks time, then maybe 35k at that pace in another two weeks after that before maybe having a crack it the marathon another fortnight after that.

Is there any type of training I should be doing in between these efforts? Or even instead of these?

Appreciate any tips or advice.

[Dangerscouse]

Is there any type of training I should be doing in between these efforts? Or even instead of these?

Appreciate any tips or advice.

Practice is definitely vital. You need to adapt, mentally and physically to the effort. Is r26/27 your sweet spot? I did my first FM at r27ish, but my PB was at r24.

I'd definitely recommend doing a variety of different sessions at different paces / effort. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that it needs to be all about long slow sessions.