Model B Big Ring Vs. Small Ring

[[old] chgoss]

Hi folks,<br />Wondering if anyone had any advice on the Model B big ring vs small ring.. I noticed just recently that there was a small, and gave it a whirl. I like it a great deal more in the shorter distances (new PB in 2K), but using it in the 10k I get very fatigued around 6k and havent been able to match my previous best (39.08).<br /><br />43 years old, 195lb, 6'2", I prefer to row strapless as all that banging back and forth hurts my knees with straps on. Smaller ring == harder to pull == lower stroke rate for same 500m split, which seems to suit my style..<br /><br />- is it advisable to switch back and forth between big and small ring?<br /><br />thanks<br />-chad<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

The difference in resistance, is the difference of the cubes of the number of sprockets in the cogwheel.<br /><br />15x15x15 = 3375<br />13x13x13 = 2197<br />3375 / 2197 = 153.6%<br /><br />If the open damper on the large ring is the equivalent resistance of a 160 drag factor on the model C, then the small cog open damper is the equivalent resistance of 160 x 1.53.6 = 246 on the model C.

[[old] Alissa]

<!--quoteo(post=58452:date=Mar 4 2006, 12:25 PM:name=chgoss)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(chgoss @ Mar 4 2006, 12:25 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Hi folks,<br />Wondering if anyone had any advice on the Model B big ring vs small ring.. I noticed just recently that there was a small, and gave it a whirl. <br /><br />Smaller ring == harder to pull == lower stroke rate for same 500m split, which seems to suit my style..<br /><br />- is it advisable to switch back and forth between big and small ring? </td></tr></table><br />hi chad,<br /><br />While I have no personal knowledge of a Model B, I remember seeing a comparison of the gearing of a B vs. a C/D on the UK site: "<a href="http://www.concept2.co.uk/rower/frequen ... modelbandc" target="_blank">here</a>." <br /><br />Hope that helps.<br /><br />Alissa

[[old] chgoss]

Yep, that was great. thanks.<br /><br />From the site: <br /><br /><i>Question: "Wouldn't I get my best score in the lowest setting ... the sleekest boat?"<br />This would be true if the flywheel speed were taken directly as the speed of your "boat". However the electronic monitor is doing a lot of work while you exercise. As you are moving forward for your next stroke the monitor measures how much your flywheel is slowing down. It can determine precisely how sleek or slow your "boat" is by how much it slows down between strokes. It then uses this information to determine from the speed of the flywheel how much work you are doing. In this way your true effort is calculated regardless of damper setting</i><br /><br />Wonder if my PM1 is that sophisticated.. I wonder is that just applies to the PM2 or PM3?

[[old] John Rupp]

Yes, the watts measurement on the pm1 is nearly as accurate.<br /><br />However the conversion from watts to pace is not consistent.<br /><br />You could manually convert the watts to pace and get a more accurate reading than the display on the monitor.<br /><br />Or get a pm2.

[[old] Xeno]

<!--quoteo(post=58452:date=Mar 4 2006, 12:25 PM:name=chgoss)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(chgoss @ Mar 4 2006, 12:25 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Hi folks,<br />Wondering if anyone had any advice on the Model B big ring vs small ring.. I noticed just recently that there was a small, and gave it a whirl. I like it a great deal more in the shorter distances (new PB in 2K), but using it in the 10k I get very fatigued around 6k and havent been able to match my previous best (39.08).<br /><br />43 years old, 195lb, 6'2", I prefer to row strapless as all that banging back and forth hurts my knees with straps on. Smaller ring == harder to pull == lower stroke rate for same 500m split, which seems to suit my style..<br /><br />- is it advisable to switch back and forth between big and small ring?<br /><br />thanks<br />-chad<br /> </td></tr></table><br />The model B, I feel nostalgic. I rowed for the first time on one in 1985 in my french coache's living room.<br />I used to row with the small cog wheel and vents closed. You should use the slide from concept2 and strap your feet back in. You are not the first one who finds that rowing on a stationary ergometer is harder on the body. It is always good to bring variety in your training, therefore changing resistance would be the way to do it.<br />XENO

[[old] ljwagner]

<br />If you fall off at 6K, spend some time on that ring doing some 2x or 3x of 5Ks for 4-6 weeks or more. You'll build up to longer distances. Give yourself more time to acclimatize.<br /><br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--quoteo(post=58485:date=Mar 4 2006, 06:48 PM:name=chgoss)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(chgoss @ Mar 4 2006, 06:48 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Yep, that was great. thanks.<br /><br />From the site: <br /><br /><i>Question: "Wouldn't I get my best score in the lowest setting ... the sleekest boat?"<br />This would be true if the flywheel speed were taken directly as the speed of your "boat". However the electronic monitor is doing a lot of work while you exercise. As you are moving forward for your next stroke the monitor measures how much your flywheel is slowing down. It can determine precisely how sleek or slow your "boat" is by how much it slows down between strokes. It then uses this information to determine from the speed of the flywheel how much work you are doing. In this way your true effort is calculated regardless of damper setting</i><br /><br />Wonder if my PM1 is that sophisticated.. I wonder is that just applies to the PM2 or PM3?<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Actually that was written for the PM1's introduction, prior to having specific DF's to even compare, though the B does not suffer from the dust buildup and such that the C does so "large cog 50% open vent" is probably very close between machines. The PM1's only lack of "sophisitcation" is that it took 17 strokes to recalculate the DF (as opposed to every stroke for the PM2 and above, and it's use of a conversion table from Watts to Pace that varies from the PM2 and above). If you have an assistant, you can demonstrate why there is now a rule that the damper setting can not be changed during a race. Open the vents fully and begin to row at a good solid effort, after 20-25 strokes have your assistant close the vents while you continue to keep the effort the same and watch what happens to the pace for the next 17 strokes. "Stupid Erg Tricks". <br /><br />Cheers.

[[old] akit110]

This is a bit off-topic and may sound odd but I still really like the early 1900s industrial black steel and wood aesthetic of the Model B. If I had the room in my NYC apartment (the B doesn't fold), I would probably have bought a mint one for the way it looks and sounds alone!

[[old] TabbRows]

Wow! That's what those two adjusters are for. I thought one was simply as easier way of moving the other.<br />When I got my "B" in January, I just set the slit openings until the drag factor = 120, about where the drag factor on the "D" at the gym was when the lever was on 6.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--quoteo(post=58618:date=Mar 6 2006, 09:29 AM:name=TabbRows)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TabbRows @ Mar 6 2006, 09:29 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Wow! That's what those two adjusters are for. I thought one was simply as easier way of moving the other.<br />When I got my "B" in January, I just set the slit openings until the drag factor = 120, about where the drag factor on the "D" at the gym was when the lever was on 6.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />With the chain on the large 15 tooth cogwheel, a drag factor of 120 is the equivalent resistance of a drag factor of 98 on a model C or model D 14 tooth cogwheel.<br /><br />120 x [ 14x14x14 ] / [ 15x15x15 ] = 98<br />

[[old] TabbRows]

<!--quoteo(post=58624:date=Mar 6 2006, 01:12 PM:name=John Rupp)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Mar 6 2006, 01:12 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--quoteo(post=58618:date=Mar 6 2006, 09:29 AM:name=TabbRows)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TabbRows @ Mar 6 2006, 09:29 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Wow! That's what those two adjusters are for. I thought one was simply as easier way of moving the other.<br />When I got my "B" in January, I just set the slit openings until the drag factor = 120, about where the drag factor on the "D" at the gym was when the lever was on 6.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />With the chain on the large 15 tooth cogwheel, a drag factor of 120 is the equivalent resistance of a drag factor of 98 on a model C or model D 14 tooth cogwheel.<br /><br />120 x [ 14x14x14 ] / [ 15x15x15 ] = 98<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Does that mean I should set my "B" drag factor to be 148?

[[old] John Rupp]

Just set the drag factor where it feels right for you.