RowPro Version 6??

[Carl Watts]

You don't need competitive pressure you need a large potential number of paid up users and rowing is never going to get that.

RowPro was pretty much all there was since I fist started using it in the early 2000's, never reached critical mass in terms of users.

Cyclists outnumber rowers by like 1000:1 and have a totally different mindset when it comes to joining a group for exercise.

Zwift nailed it for cyclists and was 2 weeks away from going live on a rowing version before the whole thing got mysteriously cancelled a few years ago.

[JaapvanE]

You don't need competitive pressure you need a large potential number of paid up users and rowing is never going to get that.

Saw a EXR facebook ad a couple of days ago: EXR is above 7K users. And they are just getting started as World Rowing and British Rowing are now official partners.

You don't need Zwifts 2.5 million users to stay afloat, unless you are terribly inefficient and have over 300 employees like Zwift does (their codebase must really be a mess...) and investors wanting to see Return on Investment. Salty Lemon has a small but efficient team, about 5 guys. Enough to do the development but not too big to drain the earned fees too quickly.

Zwift nailed it for cyclists and was 2 weeks away from going live on a rowing version before the whole thing got mysteriously cancelled a few years ago.

They promissed Zwift would support rowing, but it never materialized. There is no actual proof of it actually exist. Not even an easily rendered video. It might be he fliated the idea, as they went for yet another investor round. Eric Lin might think it was an easy add on, but it isn't. He might think he could off a similar stunt to running, which still is free and in beta, years in. And rowing is tough to visualize. Two years in, EXR is still improving the rowing movement of its avatar. Rowing is slower and thus puts different demands on scenery then cycling, so reuse of worlds is limited. And water sucks to visualize (Unity had a team of developers work on it for a year, for a reason...). So I am really sceptical about the realism of this claim.

And sadly, as RowPro shows, developing a rowing app from scratch is extremely tough, even if you know what you are doing and hopefully use a decent platform to start with. Although EXR, CoZweat (both Unity based apps) and ImmersuRow (an UnReal based app) have managed to do so.

And Zwift has huge issues both in its codebase and the UI design. Still not solved them by the way. Still looking for talent. They need some tough software architects to clean out the mess. So they had to focus in keeping their real paying customers and investors happy. No sideshows in that scenario for a long time.

[Carl Watts]

EXR will be interesting.

If Zwift has 2.5Million users, pretty much whenever I ride there is about 3500 online.

7000 in EXR sounds great until you checkin and find you are the only one online. The biggest mistake RowPro ever made was you were able to row using it offline. Every single row should have been online.

Not sure that Zwift is a mess to be honest, they had time to put the Christmas lights up on plenty of trees.

Cannot really fault Zwift, the interface between the tire and the road needs some work (if you have over 120psi in a road tire just keep it round) but other aspects are great, I have trouble breathing as we go through the dust, quite an interesting psychological reaction.

The graphics in Zwift do not need to be any better than they are already, all the effort just needs to go into new routes, which is what keeps you riding and on a bike its near endless possibilities.

[JaapvanE]

7000 in EXR sounds great until you checkin and find you are the only one online. The biggest mistake RowPro ever made was you were able to row using it offline. Every single row should have been online.

On EXR it depends on which course you take. On the course of the day there are always people. I rowed at 6:00 and typically encounter the later Asian rowers and the New Zealanders, I rowed at 24:00, and encountered a lot of US people. On the course of the day, I typically encounter 5 to 10 people in a session. When I select a different track, it depends on the track. Henley always has people on it. Boston has a lot of long distance rowers on it in the weekend, especially on Sundays.

A large part is in course design and setting the right starting points: most tracks cross or encounter parts of themselves or other tracks. Some tracks start half way on another track. In Henley, Temple Island always has people around it as every track passes there. Same goes for the area around Church Island in Lake bled. But even in Boston, the course of the HOCR typically has people going in the opposite direction as well, as it shares parts with other tracks.

EXR has something planned for Christmas as well. They promissed to make it snow and turn it into a winter wonder land. I'm curious how Henley will look, especially the town and the waterfall.

[Carl Watts]

Sounds like EXR is going to be the thing to use.

They are really only doing what I told RowPro to do 10 years ago now, take actual rowing venues like lakes and places like Lucerne and convert it into graphics for the in game experience.

EXR needs to implement a 2000m race course complete with spectator stands for the last couple of etc for race events if they have not already done so.

Personalisation will one day take an uploaded picture of you and convert that into a lifelike avatar and it will be job done. Sounds like a nice side-line hustle using AI.

[JaapvanE]

EXR needs to implement a 2000m race course complete with spectator stands for the last couple of etc for race events if they have not already done so.

They already have. One is in Lake Bled (World championship course) and the other is in Boston. People now can organize provate races on them as well, which sounds fun.

They also have a 500m and 1000m track. Oddly enough, the 2K+ track in Henley isn't active yet, nor is the three mile race in Boston (which uses a phased start in real life). And some want longer distance races like 5K, 6K, 10K, HM and FM. The courses can take it, we just want a decent start and finish. There always is next months release.

[Xrayvizhen]

As I stated on another thread, I just committed to RowPro, at least for the next 12 months. Maybe there will be a Version 6.0, maybe not but the reason for my decision has nothing to do with whether or not RowPro will be competitive with the others on the market. It does just what I want it to do, so for that I'm happy. I do wonder though...the developer(s) of RowPro MUST be aware of the sentiments expressed here and in other threads which seem to be questioning their viability. I mean this IS the Concept 2 forum so they must be reading this stuff so I'm curious why no one from that company has responded.

By the way, has anyone had a look at ImersU? That one seems to be even better than EXR, but the price, as far as I'm concerned, is outlandish.

[Carl Watts]

By the way, has anyone had a look at ImersU? That one seems to be even better than EXR, but the price, as far as I'm concerned, is outlandish.

Wow that really is graphics at the next level, where did you find out about pricing ? couldn't find it on their website, found it on a YouTube clip and if its USD$14.99 a month that is hardly "Outrageous" its similar what millions of Zwift users are already paying. Could be a rower problem however, they all seem as tight as a fishes arse and want everything for free so you get the ErgData virtual loop.

Couldn't help seeing the "Companion App" are we sure this is not a Zwift spin-off ?

Simply not a big enough market for 3 or 4 separate lots of rowing software, you are going to be rowing against AI generated rowers all the time rather than actual people.

[JaapvanE]

By the way, has anyone had a look at ImersU? That one seems to be even better than EXR, but the price, as far as I'm concerned, is outlandish.

Wow that really is graphics at the next level, where did you find out about pricing ? couldn't find it on their website, found it on a YouTube clip and if its USD$14.99 a month that is hardly "Outrageous" its similar what millions of Zwift users are already paying. Could be a rower problem however, they all seem as tight as a fishes arse and want everything for free so you get the ErgData virtual loop.

That is your assumption based on some people here. I don't see the SwellDone-app swarming with people though (which is a free game environment for rowing and kayaking).

When I tried it, it is was just the race courses, which is extremely limiting. Most people do a lot of steady state rowing, which tends to require courses of 10K+. That is the mistake most of these games make (aside EXR, SwellDone and perhaps CoZweat).

Couldn't help seeing the "Companion App" are we sure this is not a Zwift spin-off ?

Nope, it is a UK based company doing an Unreal game engine based development, they aim to do this for more gym sports. CoZweat is another, which is also more realistic but is Unity based. Developing a first version of a game is pretty easy actually. Especially when using unoptimized life-like visuals. Getting the functionality there that people like while being able to use affordable hardware, is tough.

Simply not a big enough market for 3 or 4 separate lots of rowing software, you are going to be rowing against AI generated rowers all the time rather than actual people.

That depends a lot on course design actually. And you don't want hundreds of rowers on the same course, unlike cyclist who like a crowd and like to ride in packs.

[nick rockliff]

Upgraded my Rowpro 5.1 to 5.8 yesterday, not worked since! No reply to email either!

[Carl Watts]

Upgraded my Rowpro 5.1 to 5.8 yesterday, not worked since! No reply to email either!

Pretty strange both being V5. RowPro certainly got much easier to upgrade over the years in terms of getting it working.

Have been running V5.8 since it was released, no issues with it on decent hardware but I confess I have not used it now for nearly a year.

[Xrayvizhen]

Upgraded my Rowpro 5.1 to 5.8 yesterday, not worked since! No reply to email either!

You might need to make sure your PM5 firmware is updated. 5.8 is working for me and they did respond to my emails, it just took a day. Maybe because of the holiday no one's working and you might not hear until Jan 2.

[Xrayvizhen]

By the way, has anyone had a look at ImersU? That one seems to be even better than EXR, but the price, as far as I'm concerned, is outlandish.

Wow that really is graphics at the next level, where did you find out about pricing ? couldn't find it on their website, found it on a YouTube clip and if its USD$14.99 a month that is hardly "Outrageous" its similar what millions of Zwift users are already paying. Could be a rower problem however, they all seem as tight as a fishes arse and want everything for free so you get the ErgData virtual loop.

Pricing is in their FAQ section and it's 14.99 British Pounds = $19.09/month.

[Carl Watts]

So about NZD$30 a month and a pack of cigarettes over here is over $40 now so I guess it's all relative.

[nick rockliff]

Upgraded my Rowpro 5.1 to 5.8 yesterday, not worked since! No reply to email either!

Pretty strange both being V5. RowPro certainly got much easier to upgrade over the years in terms of getting it working.

Have been running V5.8 since it was released, no issues with it on decent hardware but I confess I have not used it now for nearly a year.

It's something to do with the activation code, it says it's not activated and when you go in the activate section it throws up a fault saying "it shouldn't have done this, please let us know" I even uninstalled it and put 5.1 back on which came up with the same message.

5.1 has been running without problems since June 2017 when I upgraded from 4.