Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

[GlennUk]

FWIW re changing damper settings, unless i have misunderstood something it is allowed based on c2 ranking rules

https://log.concept2.com/rankings#:~:te ... he%20piece.

Long distance rowing (anything) requires a different approach to standard distances (i.e. those up to FM) IMHO.

However you determine your pace (e.g. HR value, REP) it is likely that the best strategy IME is to use a lower spm than you might otherwise for the standard distances, and the df (as opposed to damper position) should be whatever your training took place at. As others have said, irrespective of whether its allowed in the rules after rowing for a few hours changing anything will potentially impose additional strains on your body as it seeks to adapt, the only exception to this IME is where your body says slow down and forces you to adapt.

For the best performance my view is that you should row the piece as you train, accepting that on the day things might not go to plan but generally that is an even pace once settled in, with a sprint at the end, you will i suspect even though makes no difference to the overall time, its just what we usually do.

Re nutrition, there's a lot of in out there, but fundamentally your plan has to suit you, under the conditions in which you row. I did mine on Jan 2 so in the UK that's reasonably cold, although on my day it the temp was about 6-8c higher than it had been, and this would not have helped with temp control compared with the training prior. I found that the guidance re fluid intake was hugely overestimated form ,me, and over 11.5hrs i drank c.3500ml. I weighed myself pre and post the event in the same conditions and worked it out (taking into account the food i had eaten) that i had a deficit of c.300mls over that period.

when it comes to eating i consumed two bananas and some cereal bars, not entirely sure i needed it but i guess i wouldn't know if i did as i finished reasonably comfortably (PITA aside). Should add that my drink was laced with a teaspoon of sugar and 5g salt so some small intake of carbs via that routes as well.

And finally, for those that believe excising can lose weight, taking into account everything i weighed exactly the same after as i did before , the PM% indicated in had used about 6000k.

[GlennUk]

1. The C2 ErgData app doesn't allow for a 100km as a "single distance" option; it's max 50km. I found this out at 4:58am when I was all set to begin, then scrambled to search the internet for some answers. There is one: on the Main Menu, choose Select Workout > New Workout > Intervals: Variable. Set a single distance interval of 100,000 meters, with a rest interval of 0:00. Unfortunately, this means there are no splits so we can't see our progress on a screen. But I assume we can download the file as a CSV afterwards.

FWIW i had to speak to C2 to download my CSV file, took a few days to srt but i understand they have adjusted settings on their site/server to allow large files to be downloaded. If you get stuck touch base with them they were really helpful.

Here's another potential fix for solo ergers who need a bathroom break, thanks to the Facebook Indoor Rowing Community: "utilities -> battery -> press unit 3 times, then display 3 times. 12 hour time out. Marked by a little 12h in the top left. Turns off the same way. Runs the batteries down if you forget to turn it off."

3. When the monitor shuts off, the ErgData app does too--and it wipes out that workout on the app. Thankfully it still exists on the C2 monitor.

If you plug your phone in, erg data will keep it awake and then in turn it keeps the pm5 awake.

5. Nutrition on an erg is different from a bike. I think the extra core work and pivoting we do on the erg makes our stomachs more sensitive. I also wasn't as used to the gels and Stinger waffles as I was when I did my Ironmans, so that added to the stomach problems.

Ill go along with that, i didnt eat prpoerly for tow whole days post my session.

9. Respect the back half. I wasn't actually physically tired from 55-70km, but my mind was a mess. Once I took a break, I was basically done. On the next attempt I'll go out much slower--likely a 2:10 split to keep it all super light and easy. I think that'll make a big difference in the back half and prevent me from thinking I need a rest. It was weird though... I thought my legs were dead but I'd look at the monitor and still be pulling around 2:08-ish.

I found when i got to 42k left that psychologically i struggled, it wasn't until i had go through another 10-15k that i felt back in the zone, mind you by that time i was suffering big time with PITA and had to get off periodically to relieve the pain. I never actually worked out how much tat affected my time in any detai8l, save to say the last two and a half hours had loads of short breaks which felt like ages, but looking over the CSV file, were only 60-120s breaks but boy were they necessary.

Thanks for an excellent write up and hope the 100k event goes to plan next time.

[p_b82]

In short, I inadvertently stopped at 70km when the monitor timed out during a break. I wasn't gutted; see below for my detailed notes. And there was no way I was starting over (haha) or adding another 30km as a 2nd workout.

Still super proud to have pulled 70km, and glad to get that under my belt as a nice test run for another shot at 100km.
....<snip>

Hell of an achievement all the same - sorry you weren't able to get to the end, but I'm sure next time now you've learnt some lessons about how you react on the erg you'll fly through it!

[penkethj]

Quick question regarding the PM5 monitor on these longer efforts. I use ErgData, if I was to attempt a 50k effort can I just put single distance of 50,000 on ErgData and go? On concept2 website it says “PM5 will count up to 50,000 before it flips back to 0.”.

That’s makes it sound like it would be ok for 50k. But would hate to do that distance and then it messes up right at the end. Lol

[Dangerscouse]

Quick question regarding the PM5 monitor on these longer efforts. I use ErgData, if I was to attempt a 50k effort can I just put single distance of 50,000 on ErgData and go? On concept2 website it says “PM5 will count up to 50,000 before it flips back to 0.”.

That’s makes it sound like it would be ok for 50k. But would hate to do that distance and then it messes up right at the end. Lol

As long as you set the distance to 50k, and it counts down, I believe that will be fine. It certainly has been fine when I've used Ergzone for 50k and further.

For my 12hr session, as I wanted to actually row for 12 hours, I thought I could use 'Just Row' as anything else would still continue counting even when I stopped (I've got my wife to thank for suggesting this slightly more masochistic approach as I was happy to seeing it still counting down ). I then found out that at 50k it resets back to zero!! I didn't know, and I slightly panicked, and hastily set up the monitor to a specific time and added on time at the end to account for stoppages.

[Elizabeth]

FWIW re changing damper settings, unless i have misunderstood something it is allowed based on c2 ranking rules

https://log.concept2.com/rankings#:~:te ... he%20piece.

Correct, as long as the rower is the one changing them. I think the confusion is that it's typically not allowed in competition (including WRICH and CRASH-Bs), but I think that's for historical reasons and not based on the current software.

Quick question regarding the PM5 monitor on these longer efforts. I use ErgData, if I was to attempt a 50k effort can I just put single distance of 50,000 on ErgData and go? On concept2 website it says “PM5 will count up to 50,000 before it flips back to 0.”.

That’s makes it sound like it would be ok for 50k. But would hate to do that distance and then it messes up right at the end. Lol

The PM5 only counts up for "Just Row", right? I've done a single variable interval of 100k before. I have never tried to "Just Row" for more than about 35k.

I'm also going to check out ErgZone, and check this forum for ErgZone vs ErgData opinions. My training partner uses RowHero but it doesn't auto-upload to C2 so it's out for me. Curious to see why you and others aren't going with C2's own app.

Andrew, well-done on the 70k, and what a disappointment that it timed out.

Has this nutrition plan worked for you on other endurance events? I'm trying to figure out an approach to something and know that I start being repulsed by sweets after a while.

I have found ErgData to be very buggy at times, but ErgZone hasn't failed me. Also there are a number of things that are more intuitively designed: setting 0:30 rest involves typing 30 on the phone's keyboard as opposed to scrolling through 1-2-3-4-5..-29-30. It's also being used as the platform for an increasing number of competitions, like the current ongoing ErgWars.

[penkethj]

As long as you set the distance to 50k, and it counts down, I believe that will be fine. It certainly has been fine when I've used Ergzone for 50k and further.

For my 12hr session, as I wanted to actually row for 12 hours, I thought I could use 'Just Row' as anything else would still continue counting even when I stopped (I've got my wife to thank for suggesting this slightly more masochistic approach as I was happy to seeing it still counting down ). I then found out that at 50k it resets back to zero!! I didn't know, and I slightly panicked, and hastily set up the monitor to a specific time and added on time at the end to account for stoppages.

Ok cool that’s what I thought. After completing the FM I’m tempted to have a crack at ticking off a 50k as shouldn’t be too different (I think, lol).

Only problem is I seemed to have what I’m told is Golfer’s Elbow. It started during my 30 days of 10k+. But has kind of been manageable. If I do a particularly hard or long session it’s sore for a couple days then I can row again. But isn’t really getting any better. Most of the advice I’ve seen just says rest but that’s something I find hard to do. Will have to try and figure it out.

Also masochistic is certainly the right word for a 12 hour effort. I could do that on a bike but on a rowing machine that sounds brutal!!!

[penkethj]

Quick question regarding the PM5 monitor on these longer efforts. I use ErgData, if I was to attempt a 50k effort can I just put single distance of 50,000 on ErgData and go? On concept2 website it says “PM5 will count up to 50,000 before it flips back to 0.”.

That’s makes it sound like it would be ok for 50k. But would hate to do that distance and then it messes up right at the end. Lol

The PM5 only counts up for "Just Row", right? I've done a single variable interval of 100k before. I have never tried to "Just Row" for more than about 35k.

Yeah I wouldn’t be doing it as ‘Just Row’. Would be on ergdata which does count down. I just didn’t know if you could put a single distance of 50,000m-100,000m on ErgData and that would work, or whether you would have to choose intervals.

[Elizabeth]

Quick question regarding the PM5 monitor on these longer efforts. I use ErgData, if I was to attempt a 50k effort can I just put single distance of 50,000 on ErgData and go? On concept2 website it says “PM5 will count up to 50,000 before it flips back to 0.”.

That’s makes it sound like it would be ok for 50k. But would hate to do that distance and then it messes up right at the end. Lol

The PM5 only counts up for "Just Row", right? I've done a single variable interval of 100k before. I have never tried to "Just Row" for more than about 35k.

Yeah I wouldn’t be doing it as ‘Just Row’. Would be on ergdata which does count down. I just didn’t know if you could put a single distance of 50,000m-100,000m on ErgData and that would work, or whether you would have to choose intervals.

I just verified. PM5 and the ErgData app will not allow a single distance of 100,000m. They both will allow it to be programmed as "variable intervals" with a single interval of 100,000m. You will not get any split data. It will be rankable.

ErgZone will allow a single distance of 100,000m with splits. They have a C2 Rankings group that has a prebuilt 100k with 5k splits.

[penkethj]

The PM5 only counts up for "Just Row", right? I've done a single variable interval of 100k before. I have never tried to "Just Row" for more than about 35k.

Yeah I wouldn’t be doing it as ‘Just Row’. Would be on ergdata which does count down. I just didn’t know if you could put a single distance of 50,000m-100,000m on ErgData and that would work, or whether you would have to choose intervals.

I just verified. PM5 and the ErgData app will not allow a single distance of 100,000m. They both will allow it to be programmed as "variable intervals" with a single interval of 100,000m. You will not get any split data. It will be rankable.

ErgZone will allow a single distance of 100,000m with splits. They have a C2 Rankings group that has a prebuilt 100k with 5k splits.

Thank you that makes sense. Are both PM5 and ErgData fine for 50,000m then? Is it only once you got over 50,000m that it becomes a problem?

[Elizabeth]

Thank you that makes sense. Are both PM5 and ErgData fine for 50,000m then? Is it only once you got over 50,000m that it becomes a problem?

Yep, they're both good for 50k. It looks like it's actually good for up to 99,999m, and I believe that C2 support will help a 99,999m row to be counted as a century (since realistically the flywheel will keep going for at least a few more meters), but would also recommend verifying with them before you put the effort into trying that.

[Dangerscouse]

I'm trying to figure out an approach to something and know that I start being repulsed by sweets after a while.

I discovered unsweetened Tailwind powders and they're ideal to have along with the usual sweeter options, as there's only a very slight sweetness but they cover all of the essential macros etc.

[RWAGR]

Just started day 1 of 100k training. Planning to row it March 2nd or 3rd. No doubt I’ll be asking all the usual questions (that have been answered many times before) on here.

As a threshold matter I don’t have a time goal - just want to finish it. I suppose in sub-8 hours but that’s not really a goal so much as I know if I haven’t finished it by then I won’t be able to continue.

Re ErgData and ErgZone, one of the things I like about the former is I can access my logbook through the app. On ErgZone, while it says it synchs workouts to my C2 log, it doesn’t appear to work in reverse (ie there is no way of seeing the C2 log - including non ErgZone rows - in the ErgZone app). Am I missing something?

[alex9026]

Just started day 1 of 100k training. Planning to row it March 2nd or 3rd. No doubt I’ll be asking all the usual questions (that have been answered many times before) on here.

Where does one begin with training for 100k on an erg? I've cycled 8/9 up to 10 hours plenty of times and that pushed my mind to the brink. Is it a generic plan you are following or your own?

Just reading the above posts re nutrition, it becomes such an unpredictable world after so many hours, I could never get it right.

[Elizabeth]

I'm trying to figure out an approach to something and know that I start being repulsed by sweets after a while.

I discovered unsweetened Tailwind powders and they're ideal to have along with the usual sweeter options, as there's only a very slight sweetness but they cover all of the essential macros etc.

Thanks, Stu!

Re ErgData and ErgZone, one of the things I like about the former is I can access my logbook through the app. On ErgZone, while it says it synchs workouts to my C2 log, it doesn’t appear to work in reverse (ie there is no way of seeing the C2 log - including non ErgZone rows - in the ErgZone app). Am I missing something?

If you are, I am missing it as well. I primarily use ErgZone when actually doing stuff, but regularly pull up ErgData because it has my recent activity in one place. Today, I used my own warmup and cooldown in ErgZone but then the ErgWars bike event for the main bit, so it was all over the place.

Thaïs is really receptive to feedback, but they have a small team and I don't know if this is a priority for anyone other than me. Happy to pass along feedback if there's a wider desire for this.