Aging & Drag Factor

[ranger]

In this WR row, I am at max drag. I am 53 years old. This race is at the CRASH-Bs. I won the 50s lwt hammer, pulling 6:30, two seconds under the 50s lwt 2K WR at the time, held by Jean-Paul Tardieu, whom you see rowing in this race as well. Also in this race is multiple hammer winner Dennis Hastings. I also beat him, soundly. Dennis no longer races, nor does Jean-Paul, nor does almost EVERYONE my age whom I raced against back in 2003. Why? They are all dead, sick, injured, stale, or so disappointed in there rowing, that they either can't do it or don't want to. Kurmakov just died, recently. I still feel great, have no diseases, take no pills, and have been doing double sessions, daily, never missing a day, since I retired, at 63 years old, ten years ago. This winter, I will start racing again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkINV4ODahE

[JaapvanE]

In this WR row, I am at max drag.

Could be, but who cares? Most people here row for fun, and hardly do any races anyway. And drag is as personal as the bike gear you prefer.

The general question here, which is quite interesting to me and several others, is what should the drag do when you age. I'll put you in the "drag should remain the same" camp. Many others, with quite compelling arguments I must say, suggest that drag should be reduced slowly. The latter is also in line with what my physio told me to do when I tore my biceps, to keep stresses of the joints and muscles to a minimum.

[ranger]

In this WR row, I am at max drag.

Could be, but who cares? Most people here row for fun, and hardly do any races anyway. And drag is as personal as the bike gear you prefer.

The general question here, which is quite interesting to me and several others, is what should the drag do when you age. I'll put you in the "drag should remain the same" camp. Many others, with quite compelling arguments I must say, suggest that drag should be reduced slowly. The latter is also in line with what my physio told me to do when I tore my biceps, to keep stresses of the joints and muscles to a minimum.

Depends on how you row. If you take the catch on your heels with your hams and glutes, hanging your body weight on the handle, you can row at max drag, both safely and with great benefit (in terms of pace). I suspect (know for sure, etc.) that you take the catch on your toes/balls of your feet with your quads and don't set your heels or use your hams and glutes until the middle, or even end, of the drive, which destabilizes and weakens your leverage at the footplate, and so throws stress all over your body, including your biceps. It also gets you no "hang"" on the handle. You just push straight back the rail. It is also stressful on your body to sequence your levers rigorously, as I suspect you ALSO do, legs-back-arms, finishing your legs before your back and your back before your arms, because you isolate your weak levers away from support from your legs. A much safer and stronger strategy, technically, is the sequence your levers at the catch but NOT at the finish, finishing your stroke when your legs are done, folding your arms into your back and your back into your legs, as in a CONIBEAR stroke.

[JaapvanE]

Depends on how you row. If you take the catch on your heels with your hams and glutes, hanging your body weight on the handle, you can row at max drag, both safely and with great benefit (in terms of pace).

Many knowledgeable people, including C2, have a different opinion about using Max drag factor. And as you are just a random dude with extremely questionable reputation, and the others actually have a credible reputation, I know who to believe.

I suspect (know for sure, etc.) that you take the catch on your toes/balls of your feet with your quads and don't set your heels or use your hams and glutes until the middle, or even end, of the drive, which destabilizes and weakens your leverage at the footplate, and so throws stress all over your body, including your biceps. It also gets you no "hang"" on the handle. You just push straight back the rail. It is also stressful on your body to sequence your levers rigorously, as I suspect you ALSO do, legs-back-arms, finishing your legs before your back and your back before your arms, because you isolate your weak levers away from support from your legs.

Then you are more knowledgeable about my stroke then my coach is. These are blind assumptions. Don't.

A much safer and stronger strategy, technically, is the sequence your levers at the catch but NOT at the finish, finishing your stroke when your legs are done, folding your arms into your back and your back into your legs, as in a CONIBEAR stroke.

I prefer to get my advice about the safety of a rowing technique from credible people with a medical degree obtained in this decade. And the ones that have this, know rowing technique inside out and actually have seen my rowing technique, say that my technique is safe. All other people, especially the ones making blind assumptions and suggesting a century old technique, are just noise in the background to be ignored.

[ranger]

I also just row for fun. I didn't start indoor rowing until I was 50 years old. I have now rowed on the water in a 1x, but I have never had lessons, a coach, and so forth, or been a regular part of a club or team. I mostly row on the erg in my basement, in my garage, and outside my house in a tool shed. Why do I race? Because in rowing, including indoor rowing, racing is what is the most fun. If it weren't, why would we have the monitor on the erg and all the numbers? The numbers tell you how fast you are going and why. Do you turn on your monitor when you row? If you just row to have fun, and your don't want to race, why do you turn on the monitor at all? Just row.

I just told you why your technique isn't safe.

[ranger]

Hey, don't listen to me if you don't want to. It's YOUR choice! But I DO have 25 years of experience rowing two hours a day on the erg, never missing a day. And I am now 72 years years old and am still doing it, never having been injured. Anyway, if you DON'T listen to me, there might be good compensation. You might meet a lot of pretty nurses in the hospital!

[ranger]

The so-called "expert" people advising you all take the catch WAAAAY up on their toes with their quads, don't set their heels until the middle of the drive, push straight back the rail, and isolate their weak levers without support from their legs at the finish.

As you do.

So they can't row at high drag without injuring themselves.

DUH.

[ranger]

Sorry, but the myth that C2 is generating with their advice on technique is that the contemporary rowing stroke, if you do it their way, doesn't injure you. OMG. Indeed it does. I hear that, if you are an OTW rowing coach these days, expect that a full HALF of your rowers will get rib injuries. Using a contemporary stroke at low drag, I cracked a rib, too, about 10 years ago. Now that the crack is heeled, I have a big KNOB on that rib. So I gave up trying to row THEIR way and went back to rowing at max drag. Rowing at max drag, in 25 years, I have never been injured.

[ranger]

The so-called experts advising you are both not very smart (there are safer alternatives than what they are advising) and are lying to you about the safety of what they suggest.

In rowing, EVERYONE rows as they suggest, and injuries are LEGION.

[Citroen]

I feel the impending ban hammer is going to fall.

Ranger is doing exactly what he was banned for, just with a new audience.
Please don't feed the troll. He's spouting his normal nonsense.

I'd have had him off here in an instant but C2 don't give me access to the ban hammer.

[JaapvanE]

Ranger is doing exactly what he was banned for, just with a new audience.
Please don't feed the troll. He's spouting his normal nonsense.

Thank you for the warning. I got the nonsense part by myself from just a few posts. His history, which I was not aware of, is indeed shocking. Thank you for bringing a newbee like me up to speed.

Recalling the discussion you and I had about medical advice given by complete idiots with no medical background whatsoever: this example illustrates some points...

[nick rockliff]

Ranger is doing exactly what he was banned for, just with a new audience.
Please don't feed the troll. He's spouting his normal nonsense.

Thank you for the warning. I got the nonsense part by myself from just a few posts. His history, which I was not aware of, is indeed shocking. Thank you for bringing a newbee like me up to speed.

Recalling the discussion you and I had about medical advice given by complete idiots with no medical background whatsoever: this example illustrates some points...

Rich isn't giving advice to anybody. He's doing what he's always done, putting his thoughts out there and people just bite. Just take it with a pinch of salt and simply ignore him.

[johnlvs2run]

Rich isn't giving advice to anybody. He's doing what he's always done, putting his thoughts out there and people just bite. Just take it with a pinch of salt and simply ignore him.

Exactly. Thank you. Why people get so obsessed with this is a mystery.

[johnlvs2run]

Depends on how you row. If you take the catch on your heels with your hams and glutes, hanging your body weight on the handle, you can row at max drag, both safely and with great benefit (in terms of pace).

Where do you keep your feet on the stretchers, high at the top?

[JaapvanE]

Rich isn't giving advice to anybody. He's doing what he's always done, putting his thoughts out there and people just bite. Just take it with a pinch of salt and simply ignore him.

Isn't he? He just told me 3 or 4 times that my rowing technique is unsafe, implying that I should change my technique to avoid injury....

I respect that people have a right to their own opinion, and even the right to free speech. But when people make strong statements like that, which go against conventional wisdom, I'd expect a bit more than just "I can do this (which others actually doubt) so you should too".