Just ordered a RowERG

[Ombrax]

For a while I had my Model C in my sun room, that has a linoleum floor. The erg wanted to move a bit, but four pieces of non-slip tool box liner fixed that.

I used the mesh kind that has little "pillows" but I would guess that plenty of the other types would work just as well.

17.7 Inches x 20 Feet for $20 - that's probably enough for all the ergs in a 10 mile radius

https://www.amazon.com/Non-Adhesive-Dur ... 68888&th=1

[jamesg]

I wonder why C2 haven't addressed this issue.

The issue is called Inertia, a property of Mass.

[JaapvanE]

I use option 6. The erg is in an alcove approx 400mm longer than the erg. A piece of cut to size ~200mm oak placed in front and behind effectively wedges the erg between the walls ... no damage to anything and it can't move no matter how poor my technique or how hard I'm trying. Other alcove sizes available depending how much Oak you have.

Wouldn't that create weird stresses on the legs of the erg? Allow things to wiggle (that is the official technical term) removes a lot of stress on the connectors of the legs to the erg. As I see it, fixating the legs completely would put all the repeated stress on these joints.

[hikeplusrow]

I use option 6. The erg is in an alcove approx 400mm longer than the erg. A piece of cut to size ~200mm oak placed in front and behind effectively wedges the erg between the walls ... no damage to anything and it can't move no matter how poor my technique or how hard I'm trying. Other alcove sizes available depending how much Oak you have.

Ah, alcove timber entrapment. Rarely used, but oh so effective

[hikeplusrow]

I wonder why C2 haven't addressed this issue.

The issue is called Inertia, a property of Mass. To accelerate our mass when rowing, we push (and can pull too) on the footplate, and the push or pull tends to move the machine or boat. So either we let it move by putting it on wheels or water, or increase its mass and friction so much that our forces are not enough to move it.

Yeah, I get that, but wondering if C2 could offer 'sticky feet'(!) or something as an option. Are there similar issues with Water Rower, Avalon etc?

[JaapvanE]

Yeah, I get that, but wondering if C2 could offer 'sticky feet'(!) or something as an option. Are there similar issues with Water Rower, Avalon etc?

If you push too hard on a waterrower in the drive, the impellor starts to cavitate, actually releasing some of the pressure. So exploding at the catch is incredibly inefficient, as it is on real water. That happened on the model I tried, and when I look at data for OpenRowingMonitor, it isn't uncommon. Might be a model specific issue which is fixed by now.

When it comes to moving backward, just don't use the straps on your feet. An erg starts to walk backward when the finish or recovery are too agressive.

[MPx]

I use option 6. The erg is in an alcove approx 400mm longer than the erg. A piece of cut to size ~200mm oak placed in front and behind effectively wedges the erg between the walls ... no damage to anything and it can't move no matter how poor my technique or how hard I'm trying. Other alcove sizes available depending how much Oak you have.

Wouldn't that create weird stresses on the legs of the erg? Allow things to wiggle (that is the official technical term) removes a lot of stress on the connectors of the legs to the erg. As I see it, fixating the legs completely would put all the repeated stress on these joints.

Yeah, maybe some unplanned stresses but honestly don't expect it to be an issue - its wedged, but not to the point of needing tools to remove the wood or erg. My Model C lasted 21years (actually gave it to a mate and he's put a few more MM on it since), and the current D is coming up 5 years old and 12MM and still looks like a new m/c to me with no obvious deterioration or issues anywhere - but maybe the lags will suddenly collapse, who knows.

[MPx]

Ah, alcove timber entrapment. Rarely used, but oh so effective

love it!

[mict450]

So exploding at the catch is incredibly inefficient, as it is on real water.

That's good to know! I've recently changed to a slower, gentler catch. Hasn't affected my splits, but it's sure easier on the back!

I'm on a dynamic which by its nature, exhibits an instantaneous catch...I imagine there'd be some changes that would have to be made to one's "pick up" if one were on a static machine.

[nick rockliff]

I use option 6. The erg is in an alcove approx 400mm longer than the erg. A piece of cut to size ~200mm oak placed in front and behind effectively wedges the erg between the walls ... no damage to anything and it can't move no matter how poor my technique or how hard I'm trying. Other alcove sizes available depending how much Oak you have.

Wouldn't that create weird stresses on the legs of the erg? Allow things to wiggle (that is the official technical term) removes a lot of stress on the connectors of the legs to the erg. As I see it, fixating the legs completely would put all the repeated stress on these joints.

Yeah, maybe some unplanned stresses but honestly don't expect it to be an issue - its wedged, but not to the point of needing tools to remove the wood or erg. My Model C lasted 21years (actually gave it to a mate and he's put a few more MM on it since), and the current D is coming up 5 years old and 12MM and still looks like a new m/c to me with no obvious deterioration or issues anywhere - but maybe the lags will suddenly collapse, who knows.

My D is 19 years old, the only original parts are the legs and seat carriage. Both are rusty but still look structurally sound.

When I lived in China one of the apartments I lived in had polished porcelain floor tiles, the erg did move around quite a lot on the surface. I got some double sided carpet tape and wrapped it round the plastic foot pads and stuck it to the door.

[MPx]

So exploding at the catch is incredibly inefficient, as it is on real water.

That's good to know! I've recently changed to a slower, gentler catch. Hasn't affected my splits, but it's sure easier on the back!

I find it odd reading that, as it sounds opposite to what I understood to be good form. Most of the decrying of the Damper 10/max DF lobby is that it trains a slow stroke - splits are often still high! I thought the intention was to attain a very fast stroke similar to doing a standing jump (obvs backwards along the rail). That implies an explosive action at the catch, you dont "jump" otherwise.

[mict450]

Well, the stroke is definitely not slow. Sort of crescendo to full power further along in the stroke where your legs are at about 1/2 stroke length right before opening your hips. So I suppose you're right...it's not a standing jump per say. And I'm using the lowest DF my erg is capable of: 60, elevation 3200 feet. Also, I'm on a dynamic so don't have to worry about pulling on useless slack.

I saw this technique discussed on Aram Training. I'm not looking to be the fastest hockey puck on the ice. My main purpose is to keep erging as long as possible with a dodgy lumbar spine. Check Aram out...he's much more eloquent than I.

[Willy.VdW]

That's good to know! I've recently changed to a slower, gentler catch. Hasn't affected my splits, but it's sure easier on the back!

I also "ramp up" at the catch.
Not because it's more or less efficient, but because the tendons of my fingers
have problems with the assault brought on by the push of my legs.

[JaapvanE]

I find it odd reading that, as it sounds opposite to what I understood to be good form. Most of the decrying of the Damper 10/max DF lobby is that it trains a slow stroke - splits are often still high! I thought the intention was to attain a very fast stroke similar to doing a standing jump (obvs backwards along the rail). That implies an explosive action at the catch, you dont "jump" otherwise.

There is not so subtle difference between exploding at the catch and a strong stroke. Exploding at the catch in its most extreme form is slamming into a flywheel by engaging all muscles at the same time (see also https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... orce-curve), but less extreme variants do exist.

On the erg, a catch like that requires a huge acceleration of the flywheel, which is cool but wastes a tremendous amount of energy as the cubic law applies to flywheel speed within a stroke as well (accelerating the flywheel to too high peak speeds is less inefficient than a lower speed for a prolonged time). In the water you are then scooping the water away instead of moving the boat (aka bad puddles or slip).The really good rowers feel the connection with the water/flywheel and then accelerate with the legs in a way the boat can follow. Being able to transfer your power effectively is key here. Connecting with the water/flywheel in a way to transfer energy efficiently is really a thing. Putting more power in than the boat/flywheel can absorb in that time is just wasting energy.

As I understand it, you want to a soft but quick connection, and THEN accelerate in a controlled manner to optimally apply force.

[hikeplusrow]

I wonder if 'exploding at the catch' might be the reason I sometimes clip my knees (or a knee) with the handle on the drive. Just a thought.