Heart rate periodically vanishes from PM5 display

[hikeplusrow]

Hi. I use a Polar H10 heart rate strap paired to my PM5. I've noticed that the HR will sometimes disappear from the PM5 display. Occasionally this happens randomly, but always happens at the end of whatever split distance is programmed into the PM5. Does this mean the HR number for each split, and the average HR for the piece will be inaccurate? The strap is moistened, properly positioned and sufficiently tight - I've used HR monitors for nearly 30 years, so know the deal.

[Sakly]

For me only too much sweat causes dropouts/bad readings. Or low battery.

[MPx]

Does this mean the HR number for each split, and the average HR for the piece will be inaccurate?

Unfortunately, the two numbers you've cited are pretty hopeless anyway. The split number is simply the number recorded at the last stroke of that split and bears no relation to what has been going on in the rest of the rep. The Average HR is just the average of those meaningless end of split numbers. If you use an app like Ergdata you can look at the HR graph and that gives you a proper stroke by stroke representation of how you're HR has varied through the piece along with a more meaningful average.

I agree with Sascha on the low battery potential issue.

[jamesg]

Batteries in belts, watches, PM, phone and wherelse: I've had enough of them. I'll connect PM and phone to power supplies always on and do away with all Bs. Anyone tried it already? If not why not?

Next PM must have a rechargeable battery, if and only if absolutely necessary, and will only be able to operate if I've recharged it by doing at least a five minute warmup. Or by sunshine. How big a panel and what Sr Volta's units would be needed to run a PM? Maybe with something invented by Mr Faraday too. How much milliAmpère do I need?

[Dangerscouse]

I've never had that before, so all I can say is I agree with Mike & Sascha. Maybe your HRM needs replacing? My CooSpo eventually died due to too much sweat after a few years.

FWIW, I use the free Polar Beat app and that records a more reliable average HR.

[hikeplusrow]

I don't think it's the battery in either the H10 (only 3 months old) or PM5 (only 19 months old). Seems ironic that the issues could be caused by sweat - might be an excuse to slow down!

[Sakly]

I don't think it's the battery in either the H10 (only 3 months old) or PM5 (only 19 months old). Seems ironic that the issues could be caused by sweat - might be an excuse to slow down!

For me only excessive amount of sweat leads to dropouts. As example: the end of my recent 10k all out PB I had such dropout.
I needed to change the battery of the H10 a week before, it wasn't connecting at all, but had no dropouts before.
On steady states or moderate higher intensity stuff I never faced dropouts. But I use a big fan, so sweat buildup is low as long as I don't go all out for longer distances.

[hikeplusrow]

Yes, I use a fan - even in this cool weather with the erg in the garage.

[JaapvanE]

Next PM must have a rechargeable battery, if and only if absolutely necessary, and will only be able to operate if I've recharged it by doing at least a five minute warmup. Or by sunshine. How big a panel and what Sr Volta's units would be needed to run a PM? Maybe with something invented by Mr Faraday too. How much milliAmpère do I need?

Yeah, or use the big spinning thing in the cage to power it. They already did that: the batteries are just there to power the PM5 during a pause, once the flywheel spins the generator provides a nice steady 18 Volt for the PM5 to consume.

[JaapvanE]

Hi. I use a Polar H10 heart rate strap paired to my PM5. I've noticed that the HR will sometimes disappear from the PM5 display. Occasionally this happens randomly, but always happens at the end of whatever split distance is programmed into the PM5.

I use OpenRowingMonitor next to my PM5, and I notice that my Garmin HRM Dual sometimes drops out at the PM5, but is still seen by ORM. With ORM we have a pretty long timeout on that communication (6 seconds) but when you shorten it, it will drop out as well. Seems that a few missing messages can cause this to happen.

I do know that Concept2 has changed things related to HR in the latest firmware update, perhaps that has something to do with that?

Does this mean the HR number for each split, and the average HR for the piece will be inaccurate?

They were never accurate to begin with. The data never seems to match up with what my Garmin watch (listening to the same data) or OpenRowingMonitor say. I never could understand their approach.

[hikeplusrow]

Hi. I use a Polar H10 heart rate strap paired to my PM5. I've noticed that the HR will sometimes disappear from the PM5 display. Occasionally this happens randomly, but always happens at the end of whatever split distance is programmed into the PM5.

I use OpenRowingMonitor next to my PM5, and I notice that my Garmin HRM Dual sometimes drops out at the PM5, but is still seen by ORM. With ORM we have a pretty long timeout on that communication (6 seconds) but when you shorten it, it will drop out as well. Seems that a few missing messages can cause this to happen.

I do know that Concept2 has changed things related to HR in the latest firmware update, perhaps that has something to do with that?

Does this mean the HR number for each split, and the average HR for the piece will be inaccurate?

They were never accurate to begin with. The data never seems to match up with what my Garmin watch (listening to the same data) or OpenRowingMonitor say. I never could understand their approach.

When you say the data doesn't match, does the PM5 typically show higher or lower than your Garmin/ Open Rowing Monitor?

[JaapvanE]

When you say the data doesn't match, does the PM5 typically show higher or lower than your Garmin/ Open Rowing Monitor?

That actually depends on what happens in the session. What the PM5 shows in the session is usually close to ORM's and my watches displayed HRM. But when I process the data via ORM/RowsAndAll or by hand I get different results then C2 shows on an interval in the logs. Somehow they process data different then I would.

An example of a easy steady state 10K yesterday (500m splits). Started cold and slowly worked my way to decent times after 1K. First split, C2 says HR is 110. ORM/RowsAndAll and Garmin say average HR 85.3, maxHR 112. Last split: C2 says HR 139, ORM/RowsAndAll + Garmin say average HR 137, MaxHR 141. Manual analysis confirms C2 is wrong, even if you use an average over time instead of over strokes.

[hikeplusrow]

When you say the data doesn't match, does the PM5 typically show higher or lower than your Garmin/ Open Rowing Monitor?

That actually depends on what happens in the session. What the PM5 shows in the session is usually close to ORM's and my watches displayed HRM. But when I process the data via ORM/RowsAndAll or by hand I get different results then C2 shows on an interval in the logs. Somehow they process data different then I would.

An example of a easy steady state 10K yesterday (500m splits). Started cold and slowly worked my way to decent times after 1K. First split, C2 says HR is 110. ORM/RowsAndAll and Garmin say average HR 85.3, maxHR 112. Last split: C2 says HR 139, ORM/RowsAndAll + Garmin say average HR 137, MaxHR 141. Manual analysis confirms C2 is wrong, even if you use an average over time instead of over strokes.

This has me wondering whether to use Ergdata all the time. I currently only use it when going for a ranking piece. Would Ergdata numbers be different to PM5? I've not used Ergdata since I've had my H10.

[MPx]

When you say the data doesn't match, does the PM5 typically show higher or lower than your Garmin/ Open Rowing Monitor?

That actually depends on what happens in the session. What the PM5 shows in the session is usually close to ORM's and my watches displayed HRM. But when I process the data via ORM/RowsAndAll or by hand I get different results then C2 shows on an interval in the logs. Somehow they process data different then I would.

An example of a easy steady state 10K yesterday (500m splits). Started cold and slowly worked my way to decent times after 1K. First split, C2 says HR is 110. ORM/RowsAndAll and Garmin say average HR 85.3, maxHR 112. Last split: C2 says HR 139, ORM/RowsAndAll + Garmin say average HR 137, MaxHR 141. Manual analysis confirms C2 is wrong, even if you use an average over time instead of over strokes.

This has me wondering whether to use Ergdata all the time. I currently only use it when going for a ranking piece. Would Ergdata numbers be different to PM5? I've not used Ergdata since I've had my H10.

Yes. As I said before the PM5 only records the last reading for each split. In JaapvanE's example his 110 was his HR on the last stroke of the first split. That is not an average or indeed anything to do with HR throughout the rest of the split. Similarly with the 139 on the last split. The reason it may appear "nearer" to the other measures is that his HR wont change as much over the last split compared to the first. You should definitely use Ergdata all of the time if you are interested in tracking your HR - the PM5 record is pretty meaningless.

[hikeplusrow]

This is interesting stuff. I'll use ErgData all the time now. Thanks everyone, much appreciated.