Drop off in 2k performance when targeting longer stuff

[jcross485]

You can have your cake and eat it but your recipe needs to be sound. My HM and 2k PBs were done within six weeks of each other. Both off the back of base work of UT2, UT1 and AT.

The important part is then transitioning the base work into pace/rate work. My HM pace rate was 1.45.8 r26 and 2k 1.34.1 r31. You need three or four weeks to get used to those combinations, they are both very different to what I would have been doing for base work.

I would agree with what you're saying here; with 6 weeks of more specific event prep, you can be within striking distance of hitting PR's in multiple distances / events. I took the original post and question to be more of the idea of being in top shape for multiple at the same time.

I would also think that as one progresses and becomes better with higher performance and bigger PR's in distances, it would take a bit more focus and time to peak for a specific event and a bigger distance between the base level of fitness / performance and that needed to peak, meaning being able to hold a smaller percentage of that top performance year round.

[hikeplusrow]

The takeaway appears to be that, given a sound base, specific preparation for any event/distance doesn't need to be a particularly prolonged affair.

[nick rockliff]

You can have your cake and eat it but your recipe needs to be sound. My HM and 2k PBs were done within six weeks of each other. Both off the back of base work of UT2, UT1 and AT.

The important part is then transitioning the base work into pace/rate work. My HM pace rate was 1.45.8 r26 and 2k 1.34.1 r31. You need three or four weeks to get used to those combinations, they are both very different to what I would have been doing for base work.

I would agree with what you're saying here; with 6 weeks of more specific event prep, you can be within striking distance of hitting PR's in multiple distances / events. I took the original post and question to be more of the idea of being in top shape for multiple at the same time.

I would also think that as one progresses and becomes better with higher performance and bigger PR's in distances, it would take a bit more focus and time to peak for a specific event and a bigger distance between the base level of fitness / performance and that needed to peak, meaning being able to hold a smaller percentage of that top performance year round.

I was just giving the two extremes of 2k and HM. From base to HM transition would have been a couple of weeks to get used to a higher rate weaker stroke.

In that same base building period I also did my other PBs

10k - June 7th 05
60 mins - June 14th 05
5k - Aug 19th 05
30 mins - Sept 15th 05

There was also a mile race in July which at the time was a PB. The 5k probably took the most preparation.

[Dangerscouse]

The takeaway appears to be that, given a sound base, specific preparation for any event/distance doesn't need to be a particularly prolonged affair.

Yeah. I think the impact on different people will vary, as I have seen some people just manage to handle anything that is thrown at them, but I honestly think both the 2k and HM training plans share enough benefits to keep you within touching distance (more or less) of each other.

The mental battle to dig in and accept the discomfort is another issue entirely, and that's probably where it's won or lost. It is in my experience.

[Elizabeth]

The takeaway appears to be that, given a sound base, specific preparation for any event/distance doesn't need to be a particularly prolonged affair.

Yeah. I think the impact on different people will vary, as I have seen some people just manage to handle anything that is thrown at them, but I honestly think both the 2k and HM training plans share enough benefits to keep you within touching distance (more or less) of each other.

The mental battle to dig in and accept the discomfort is another issue entirely, and that's probably where it's won or lost. It is in my experience.

This. Looking at who has set a lot of the longer world records, I would be surprised if they dedicated a training block specifically to a 10k or 60:00 or HM or even M, but high level 2k and 5k volume has so many meters and also comes with a degree of mental grit that would carry over well.

I wonder if this would be different if rowing were more like running, where a wider variety of races are done in high level competition.

[hikeplusrow]

The takeaway appears to be that, given a sound base, specific preparation for any event/distance doesn't need to be a particularly prolonged affair.

Yeah. I think the impact on different people will vary, as I have seen some people just manage to handle anything that is thrown at them, but I honestly think both the 2k and HM training plans share enough benefits to keep you within touching distance (more or less) of each other.

The mental battle to dig in and accept the discomfort is another issue entirely, and that's probably where it's won or lost. It is in my experience.

This. Looking at who has set a lot of the longer world records, I would be surprised if they dedicated a training block specifically to a 10k or 60:00 or HM or even M, but high level 2k and 5k volume has so many meters and also comes with a degree of mental grit that would carry over well.

I wonder if this would be different if rowing were more like running, where a wider variety of races are done in high level competition.

I know when I was running, I wouldn't have considered doing less than three months specific preparation for an upcoming marathon.

[nick rockliff]

The takeaway appears to be that, given a sound base, specific preparation for any event/distance doesn't need to be a particularly prolonged affair.

Yeah. I think the impact on different people will vary, as I have seen some people just manage to handle anything that is thrown at them, but I honestly think both the 2k and HM training plans share enough benefits to keep you within touching distance (more or less) of each other.

The mental battle to dig in and accept the discomfort is another issue entirely, and that's probably where it's won or lost. It is in my experience.

This. Looking at who has set a lot of the longer world records, I would be surprised if they dedicated a training block specifically to a 10k or 60:00 or HM or even M, but high level 2k and 5k volume has so many meters and also comes with a degree of mental grit that would carry over well.

I wonder if this would be different if rowing were more like running, where a wider variety of races are done in high level competition.

You're right, it would be different if the ranking times/distances above 2k were competitive races but they are usually quite personal battles with yourself. Saying that though, I can't remember how many mile, 2k and 2.5k races I've competed in on the erg over the years, yet the two hardest sessions I've done including the races were the HM and 30r20 PBs done outside on the patio all on my own

[Musti]

I'd say in most endurance-based sports, there is a large carry over between distances. For example, being a better half-marathon runner makes you a better 5k runner (though if you focus on 5k more you'd improve more). The energy systems transfer really well for anything HM and below, perhaps down to mile. In other words, training for an HM will invariably improve your 5k as a runner.

However, rowing is an interesting and unique sport in that while it is endurance-based just like running or cycling, its cadence (i.e. spm) is much lower. Compare cadences in rowing (30-40) with running (170-190) or cycling (80-100). The lower the cadence the more strength is required, and therefore, rowing has a high level of strength component to it.

And because of this if you don't practice the strength component required for a 2k and focus on HM, then your 2k might not improve much. It's true that the transfer between distances in terms of energy systems would be similar in both sports (after all a 2k is still 80-85% aerobic) but the additional strength component in rowing makes the transfer between distances much weaker.

[Musti]

By the way, I think this unusual mixture of endurance and strength makes rowing such a beautiful sport. It's as if two opposing forces need to be balanced in such a way not to hamper each other, which creates a unique type of athleticism

[iain]

..,.However, rowing is an interesting and unique sport in that while it is endurance-based just like running or cycling, its cadence (i.e. spm) is much lower. Compare cadences in rowing (30-40) with running (170-190) or cycling (80-100). The lower the cadence the more strength is required, and therefore, rowing has a high level of strength component to it.

And because of this if you don't practice the strength component required for a 2k and focus on HM, then your 2k might not improve much. It's true that the transfer between distances in terms of energy systems would be similar in both sports (after all a 2k is still 80-85% aerobic) but the additional strength component in rowing makes the transfer between distances much weaker.

Interesting thought. However 2k - FM seem dominated by the same people. Do you think that this is because no-one is focusing on the longer distances? I have always found this surprising as many good athletes should be better suited to longer distances, particularly now racing is such a minority sport even of the better rowers, why would everyone focus on 2k and some not sweep the longer distance records by not doing?

Personally while 1k & below is a different story with different people pre-eminent, I have assumed that broadly rowers are more similar over different distances. Indeed I suspect that the transition for 2k from longer distances may be due to getting comfortable at the higher rating (notably coordinating breathing) and the different mental challenge.