Beginner - can you check my technique?

[mict450]

Joe, much, much better!

[Dangerscouse]

Secondly, when you start the return, try and get your arms lower as it takes a lot of energy to hold them up that high. One tip I found really helpful was to trace your stomach and thighs with the handle as you're starting the return with your arms. Sort of of a 'down and outwards' motion

Wrong! You should not "roller coaster" your arms over your knees on the return (like you were doing in the first video). In the latest video your arms look fine. Lots of coaches put a small strip of tape on the chain guide to ensure the chain stays pretty level on the drive and return. You don't have to lock your arms out there, just arms away and a nice relaxed return.

It's definitely much better than the first video. What I notice now is you are reaching at the catch and your shins are going past vertical. It looks like your ankles are flexible enough, so you might raise the feet up one hole to see how that works or just concentrate on not rolling quite as far forward. Also, bend from the hips keeping your back strong, don't hunch your back to reach further.

You've about got it. Keep refining it, pretty soon it will feel more natural.

Agreed. I don't ever drop my arms, and I always advocate keeping them in a straight line.

[Sakly]

Secondly, when you start the return, try and get your arms lower as it takes a lot of energy to hold them up that high. One tip I found really helpful was to trace your stomach and thighs with the handle as you're starting the return with your arms. Sort of of a 'down and outwards' motion

Wrong! You should not "roller coaster" your arms over your knees on the return (like you were doing in the first video). In the latest video your arms look fine. Lots of coaches put a small strip of tape on the chain guide to ensure the chain stays pretty level on the drive and return. You don't have to lock your arms out there, just arms away and a nice relaxed return.

It's definitely much better than the first video. What I notice now is you are reaching at the catch and your shins are going past vertical. It looks like your ankles are flexible enough, so you might raise the feet up one hole to see how that works or just concentrate on not rolling quite as far forward. Also, bend from the hips keeping your back strong, don't hunch your back to reach further.

You've about got it. Keep refining it, pretty soon it will feel more natural.

Agreed. I don't ever drop my arms, and I always advocate keeping them in a straight line.

For me it's different.
On longer steady state rows I drop my arms naturally and pick them up on the catch, this is much more relaxing for me.
On hard pieces with high rates I do as described by both of you - keep a straight line, as this produces the least wobble of the chain and it's the shortest way of getting back to catch.

[hikeplusrow]

From what I understand, dropping arms is a carry over from OTW rowing. I think the C2 is optimized for keeping the chain level.

[fancyoats]

From what I understand, dropping arms is a carry over from OTW rowing. I think the C2 is optimized for keeping the chain level.

True, bc you have to lower your hands to lift the oar out of the water. Low hands also keeps you from rushing on the recovery, since you need to get your hands past your knees before you start bending your knees. But even on the water you don’t want the oar *too* high (hands *too* low) bc that messes with the balance of the boat, so it’s better to maintain your hands relatively level.

Either way seems ok to me - more a matter of style and preference than power.

[jamesg]

Hand height during the recovery is governed, afloat, by the weight of the arms, and on the erg, by chain tension. We don't need to think about it, boats and ergs are engineered to solve the "problem".

At high erg ratings and fast recovery we may get chain slap, since chains can't be pushed. If excessive maybe a new tensioner is needed.

On erg, if you need to lift the handle to clear the knees, the recovery sequence is wrong: get the hands away first.

[hikeplusrow]

Yes, I would say that at my local gym the most commonly seen technique fault is that of lifting the handle over the knees. Not once have I seen an instructor attempt to correct this fault (or pretty much any other). But I really musn't get started on the subject of gym instructor competency.

[Dangerscouse]

From what I understand, dropping arms is a carry over from OTW rowing. I think the C2 is optimized for keeping the chain level.

Yeah. I just think anything that doesn't actually help, and may subtly on a very incremental level leak energy, doesn't need to happen. But, as you say, it's subjective

Yes, I would say that at my local gym the most commonly seen technique fault is that of lifting the handle over the knees. Not once have I seen an instructor attempt to correct this fault (or pretty much any other). But I really musn't get started on the subject of gym instructor competency.

I'm yet to meet a gym instructor who understands how a ergo works and teaches anything other than, whack it up to 10 and then grip it and rip it.

When I used to go to the gym it was very common to see very significant handle movement, and far too short, weak strokes.

[Sakly]

When I used to go to the gym it was very common to see very significant handle movement, and far too short, weak strokes.

Since my gym owns a rowErg, this is what I see frequently, too.

[mict450]

Quad ditto on the state of erg instruction at a gym. Better to ask the Easter bunny than a gym worker; at least you'd get some nicely boiled eggs for your troubles. 6 grams of protein per egg!

[hikeplusrow]

[Kerry1960]

My gym has 8 x C2s. I've been erging for the best part of a year and I've only ever seen 2 other people with decent technique. It"s painful just to watch some people but I won't give advice unless I'm asked which only a couple of people have.

[hikeplusrow]

Yes, I think the unsolicited proffering of advice is sometimes a dangerous thing.

[robhely]

Wrong! You should not "roller coaster" your arms over your knees on the return (like you were doing in the first video). In the latest video your arms look fine.

The roller coaster is definitely bad and that is not what I was suggesting! More that dropping the arms would force the original poster to get the arms over the knees before the knees come up.

[robhely]

For me it's different.
On longer steady state rows I drop my arms naturally and pick them up on the catch, this is much more relaxing for me.
On hard pieces with high rates I do as described by both of you - keep a straight line, as this produces the least wobble of the chain and it's the shortest way of getting back to catch.

I'm really struggling to understand how not dropping the arms at low rates on long sessions doesn't waste energy. To hold the arms up high at the start of the return feels like really hard work and not sustainable, but it seems to work for some. All the coaching I've seen online also supports dropping the arms, but perhaps there are coaches out there I haven't seen who advocate differently? I'm really surprised to hear that it seems common to keep the straight line, I'd always assumed that everyone did the dip at low rates.

After much experimentation, I've arrived at the same technique as you: dropping the arms at low rates and keeping a straight line at high rates.

One thing dropping the arms is really good for is learning the correct timing of the sequence. With high arms, the knees can bend too soon on the return without a rollercoaster motion. Low arms forces the arms to get away from the body before the knees come up.