Do you change your grip position during workouts?

[rentagreement]

Hi,

I am wondering, if some of you change the grip positin during workouts, so switching the palm facing down to u, maybe even holding the handle sideways. Why? I would like to give the arms different triggers, give different training effects to biceps and shoulder/lower/upper arms.

Does this make sense? Does changing the grip position even have any such kind of effect?

I do not look at max tempo and record kind of splits. I understand that changing the grip might lead to slower splits. This is not the goal of such grip changes... it is rather the goal to strengthen my arms/shoulders in a different way and also give the workouts some new aspects. thx

[Sakly]

I don't do this, as it makes no sense to me.
If I want to train forearms, shoulders, biceps or whatever, I do specific exercises for these muscles. The rower is not to train any of these muscles specifically, even if they are involved in the movement as secondary movers.
If grip is changed, a good rowing technique isn't possible, so the main aim of rowing gets lost. As shoulders and arms are not trained significantly by a rower at all, the training loses its benefit dramatically, as you won't get a good result for rowing training as well as for your arms/shoulders.

[JaapvanE]

Aside the ineffectiveness of the training, I'm wondering whether it stresses the body in a bad way. The arm positioning allows the Latissimus Dorsi to engage quite well. Rotating the hands effectively rotates the arms inwards, effectively blocking the use of the Latissimus Dorsi. A typical side effect is that the shoulders and upper back get weird stresses in a position it is not used to. Not something I would recommend.

[rentagreement]

thanks for your input. I am just wonderig, why the technique gets spoiled so much just by having the palms facing upwards. Also, why would that be a weird motion for the body. Having palms up pulling something to the body is quite a natural movement, isnt i?

[Sakly]

Aside the ineffectiveness of the training, I'm wondering whether it stresses the body in a bad way. The arm positioning allows the Latissimus Dorsi to engage quite well. Rotating the hands effectively rotates the arms inwards, effectively blocking the use of the Latissimus Dorsi. A typical side effect is that the shoulders and upper back get weird stresses in a position it is not used to. Not something I would recommend.

If you turn your hands palms facing upwards, this is an outward rotation. Palms facing down is an inwards rotation. The lats can be activated in both positions, otherwise pullups with different grip variants wouldn't be possible.
But specifically talking about the erg, the stroke finish gets quite complicated with externally rotated shoulders in undergrip, as this changes the movement path of the handle to the lower belly position due to the narrow elbow path forced by the shoulder.

[jamesg]

The full force from the legs, as used in rowing, has to go through our relatively weak arms at least 20 times a minute, so it would seem best to keep radius and ulna parallel. This as in a boat, where we also feather the blades.

If you want specific muscle groups trained but not engaged when rowing, no doubt there are specific exercises that carry less risk and maybe require less repeats than rowing. Even I pull around 500 strokes at a time.

[JaapvanE]

If you turn your hands palms facing upwards, this is an outward rotation. Palms facing down is an inwards rotation.

I'm talking about the elbows/arms. Palms facing down allows the elbows to extend outwards. Palms facing up tends to force elbows inside, directly under the shoulders, which is a stiff posture with a lot of tension.

The lats can be activated in both positions, otherwise pullups with different grip variants wouldn't be possible.

But a pull-up starts over the head and ends at the chin. The Latimus Dorsi are in a direct line with the motion made. In rowing, if I'm not mistaken, we use a different direction, roughly 90° to the Latimus Dorsi.

But specifically talking about the erg, the stroke finish gets quite complicated with externally rotated shoulders in undergrip, as this changes the movement path of the handle to the lower belly position due to the narrow elbow path forced by the shoulder.

That is also my point.

[Sakly]

If you turn your hands palms facing upwards, this is an outward rotation. Palms facing down is an inwards rotation.

I'm talking about the elbows/arms. Palms facing down allows the elbows to extend outwards. Palms facing up tends to force elbows inside, directly under the shoulders, which is a stiff posture with a lot of tension.

The lats can be activated in both positions, otherwise pullups with different grip variants wouldn't be possible.

But a pull-up starts over the head and ends at the chin. The Latimus Dorsi are in a direct line with the motion made. In rowing, if I'm not mistaken, we use a different direction, roughly 90° to the Latimus Dorsi.

But specifically talking about the erg, the stroke finish gets quite complicated with externally rotated shoulders in undergrip, as this changes the movement path of the handle to the lower belly position due to the narrow elbow path forced by the shoulder.

That is also my point.

Ok, I got confused by you using the term "rotation", which is typically linked to the shoulder movement to be done to move the arm. And palms facing up, the shoulder needs to rotate outwards, not inwards and this forces the elbows to move closer to the body. So we mean exactly the same

[Citroen]

I am wondering, if some of you change the grip positin during workouts, so switching the palm facing down to u, maybe even holding the handle sideways. Why? I would like to give the arms different triggers, give different training effects to biceps and shoulder/lower/upper arms.

Why would you want to do that?

My light grip on the handle remains the same for the whole workout for every workout (including a full marathon). It's fingers over the top.

[p_b82]

Only grip change I do on the erg, is whether my thumbs are wrapped or not.

Part of my training out of a death-grip/over arm usage - I started to leave my thumbs on the top of the handle for my less intense rows.

When doing a max effort or TT, I grip "properly" again, but I've broken the habit of really holding on now.

[Dangerscouse]

I only ever lightly grip the handle, although I see what you're suggesting. I've got no evidence, but I agree with Sascha and Jaapvan re: possible shoulder injuries

[rentagreement]

thank you for all the input. I will eventually not include changing grip position into the training. Seems not to make sense or even include risk of injury.

If I want to train forearms, shoulders, biceps or whatever, I do specific exercises for these muscles. The rower is not to train any of these muscles specifically, even if they are involved in the movement as secondary movers.

I still feel, that my arms and shoulders are not only secondary movers but heavily involved to ensure a good tempo. maybe it is my cyclists legs that ai often feel more post workout strain in arms and shoulders although naturally my legs are the primary movers.

[Sakly]

I still feel, that my arms and shoulders are not only secondary movers but heavily involved to ensure a good tempo. maybe it is my cyclists legs that ai often feel more post workout strain in arms and shoulders although naturally my legs are the primary movers.

This could be an indicator of some technical flaws, arms breaking early, shoulders elevated and/or too tight. But it could also show that your shoulders and arms are comparably much weaker than your other working muscles and need time for adaptation.

[rentagreement]

it is the latter. I am very sure about my technique, and also quite sure that after 20+ years of cycling being almost my only sports my legs are quite more fit than my arms/shoulder could be.

[Cyclist2]

it is the latter. I am very sure about my technique, and also quite sure that after 20+ years of cycling being almost my only sports my legs are quite more fit than my arms/shoulder could be.

When I moved here, rowing was not a viable option, so I took up cycling. I trained hard and raced for about 10 years. When I got back to rowing, there was a definite lack of upper body strength. My force curve was very front end loaded. In 2K pieces, my arms just totally gave up. I spent the next season really getting my upper body back into rowing mode.
As regards your original question, when I'm on the erg, the only change in grip is thumbs under or over, just to ease the blister tendency. I may move my hands closer or further apart for the same reason. During warm ups or cool downs I may rotate the handle so it is angled up, then do some bicep curls with damper at 10. But for upper body strength training, it's the weight room, not the erg.