What Is Spi?

[old] nharrigan · Post by **[old] nharrigan** » February 22nd, 2006, 2:52 pm

I came across this in another's post. 1:37 @ 42spm is about 9 SPI. 1:28 @ 42 spm is 12.2 SPI. Is SPI the same as meters per stroke? The math doesn't seem to work out. Neil

[old] Citroen · Post by **[old] Citroen** » February 22nd, 2006, 3:28 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(nharrigan @ Feb 22 2006, 06:52 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I came across this in another's post. 1:37 @ 42spm is about 9 SPI. 1:28 @ 42 spm is 12.2 SPI. Is SPI the same as meters per stroke? The math doesn't seem to work out. Neil </td></tr></table> It's an artificial number. watts = 2.8 / (pace^3) SPI is watts divided by strokes per minute. So 200w @ 20SPM is 10SPI, likewise 300w @ 30SPM is also 10SPI. It gives you a chance to compare unlike events and unlike distances. Fill in some numbers in the calculator at: <a href="http://www.machars.net/spi.php#spi" target="_blank">http://www.machars.net/spi.php#spi</a> and it should become clear.

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » February 22nd, 2006, 3:49 pm

To add to Dougie's comments, I believe it stands for Stroke Performance Index.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » February 22nd, 2006, 4:02 pm

SPI = Stroke Pause Index It was invented to measure the amount of rest between strokes.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » February 22nd, 2006, 4:03 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(dadams @ Feb 22 2006, 11:49 AM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>To add to Dougie's comments, I believe it stands for Stroke Performance Index. </td></tr></table> Close. Stroke Power index, but perhaps Performance might be a better word since power has lead to all sorts of abuses of the figure. From now Forward "Stroke Performance Index" it is! 8) That will integrate nicely with the concept of maintaining a fixed Distance per Stroke, and as the pace gets faster, the Stroke Performance Index also increase. Once the distance per stroke begins to shrink, even if the pace gets faster (trading rate for pace), the Stroke Performance Index decreases. This is most useful for coaches that need to compare a bunch of free-rate Erg performances that are generally pretty close in overall time, so they can assemble team boats that will be taking the same number of strokes over the course. i.e. the guy that nees to rate 40 to keep up with the other 7 that rate 32 for similar erg times, isn't going to be much help when the boat is at R32 for the race. Find Mr. R40 a similar group to row with and everyone will be happier. - Paul Smith

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » February 22nd, 2006, 4:24 pm

Performance is measured by WATTS, and shown as PACE on the monitor. The higher the SPI the more pause between strokes and, generally speaking, the LOWER the performance and the slower the time.

[old] nharrigan · Post by **[old] nharrigan** » February 22nd, 2006, 4:44 pm

Thanks guys. It makes sense now. The link is helpful. Heavyweights must tend to have higher SPIs. Is this number calculated in rowpro or the PM3? Neil

[old] michaelb · Post by **[old] michaelb** » February 22nd, 2006, 4:44 pm

First, don't pay any attention to John Rupp in this thread. He doesn't make sense generally, but this topic will certainly be bizarro world. I have tried to understand SPI myself, but I don't pretend to understand what PaulS uses the index for or how it is useful to him. On this forum, and I think this is what you are questioning, it is sometimes suggested that if SPI is the same for a given pace and SR combination, then the amount of work you have to do is also the same. Maybe I am wrong, but this makes no sense to me. If we set SPI=10, our SR for a given pace is as follows: Pace / SR 2:10 15.9 2:05 17.9 2:00 20.3 1:55 23 1:50 26.3 1:45 30.2 1:40 35 At least to me, there is simply no way that rowing a 2:05 pace at SR 18 is the same amount of work as rowing a 1:40 pace at SR 35. So I think the idea that if you train yourself at a set SPI, or for the purpose of increasing your SPI, then you can somehow magically also do the same level of SPI at faster SRs and faster paces is just crazy. But maybe I am wrong on this too.

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » February 22nd, 2006, 4:46 pm

For referance, Graham Benton did a 1K PB last night of (2:45.6) 1:22.6/500m Average at 31spm. This is a massive 20.0 SPI

That is massive power. Sir Pirate

[old] hjs · Post by **[old] hjs** » February 22nd, 2006, 5:02 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(michaelb @ Feb 22 2006, 09:44 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>First, don't pay any attention to John Rupp in this thread. He doesn't make sense generally, but this topic will certainly be bizarro world. I have tried to understand SPI myself, but I don't pretend to understand what PaulS uses the index for or how it is useful to him. On this forum, and I think this is what you are questioning, it is sometimes suggested that if SPI is the same for a given pace and SR combination, then the amount of work you have to do is also the same. Maybe I am wrong, but this makes no sense to me. If we set SPI=10, our SR for a given pace is as follows: Pace / SR 2:10 15.9 2:05 17.9 2:00 20.3 1:55 23 1:50 26.3 1:45 30.2 1:40 35 At least to me, there is simply no way that rowing a 2:05 pace at SR 18 is the same amount of work as rowing a 1:40 pace at SR 35. So I think the idea that if you train yourself at a set SPI, or for the purpose of increasing your SPI, then you can somehow magically also do the same level of SPI at faster SRs and faster paces is just crazy. But maybe I am wrong on this too. </td></tr></table> You are not wrong. Spi is the amount of work/stroke. At 2,05 you rate 17.9 x 10 = 179 watts at 1,40 you rate 35.0 x 10 = 350 watts almost dubble amount of work.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » February 22nd, 2006, 5:03 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Sir Pirate @ Feb 22 2006, 12:46 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>For referance, Graham Benton did a 1K PB last night of (2:45.6) 1:22.6/500m Average at 31spm. This is a massive 20.0 SPI

That is massive power. Sir Pirate </td></tr></table> The boy has got some pull! To add to what Michaelb was saying, lets relate what Graham did (pretty tough by any standard) with an equal SPI Pace/Rate combination of 1:35/R20 (more easily achieved by non-monsters), which would not be anywhere near as hard as a 1:22/R31. Looks like Graham is getting ready for a race! Any idea on target? Is he going to try to join the sub 5:40 club? Nobody jumps up and says "I have more", after that, but he could always the first.

SPI can be gamed by decreasing rate to bring the SPI up quickly. So it is not useful as a stand alone figure, even if some want to claim it is. In the long run, if we are trying to improve our times, the goal must be to increase both the Rate and SPI together during training. Of course I would suggest fixing the Distance per Stroke and go strapless. S10PS, why complicate it? 8)

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » February 22nd, 2006, 5:33 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(nharrigan @ Feb 22 2006, 12:44 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Thanks guys. It makes sense now. The link is helpful. Heavyweights must tend to have higher SPIs. Is this number calculated in rowpro or the PM3? Neil </td></tr></table> You're quite welcome. Yes, that is correct. Heavy's, generally speaking, are not as fit as lightweights and, thus, take more rest between strokes. Thus SPI is a measure of laziness or lack of fitness per stroke.

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » February 22nd, 2006, 5:37 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Feb 22 2006, 09:33 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Heavy's, generally speaking, are not as fit as lightweights and, thus, take more rest between strokes. Thus SPI is a measure of laziness or lack of fitness per stroke. </td></tr></table>

PaulS, Count to 10 before you make any comment.

With regards to Graham, he plays his cards very close to his chest, we all hope he does his best, his best will be nothing short of amazing. Sir Pirate

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » February 22nd, 2006, 5:47 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Sir Pirate @ Feb 22 2006, 01:37 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Feb 22 2006, 09:33 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Heavy's, generally speaking, are not as fit as lightweights and, thus, take more rest between strokes. Thus SPI is a measure of laziness or lack of fitness per stroke. </td></tr></table>

PaulS, Count to 10 before you make any comment.

With regards to Graham, he plays his cards very close to his chest, we all hope he does his best, his best will be nothing short of amazing. Sir Pirate </td></tr></table> Oh come on, you mean to tell me that there are high perfomance guys on the Erg that don't spout off about themselves endlessly?!?!!? That can't possibly be true.

Regarding the Ruppster, there's not much to say other than apparently Graham is very lazy and unfit. Make sure to say hello this w/e.

[old] hjs · Post by **[old] hjs** » February 22nd, 2006, 6:09 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Feb 22 2006, 10:33 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(nharrigan @ Feb 22 2006, 12:44 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Thanks guys. It makes sense now. The link is helpful. Heavyweights must tend to have higher SPIs. Is this number calculated in rowpro or the PM3? Neil </td></tr></table> You're quite welcome. Yes, that is correct. Heavy's, generally speaking, are not as fit as lightweights and, thus, take more rest between strokes. Thus SPI is a measure of laziness or lack of fitness per stroke. </td></tr></table> John , In my gym I see a lot of, on first glance not so fit, people. When they hop on the erg they almost always rate very high. People who erg more often, most off them look fitter then the first group, tend to rate lower. Thus this mean that training on the erg makes you loose your fittnes?

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