When to take plunge with Marathon row??

[penkethj]

Afternoon all,

I’m contemplating having a crack at a marathon row soon. Just wanted your advice as to how soon I should give it a go.

Bought a concept2 rower a couple years back to use for recovery (from long distance running/cycling) or when injury keeps me from those two disciplines.
For that reason most of my rowing has been steady state pace.

Currently on day 19 of a challenge my friend set me to row 10,000m 30 days in a row. This is going well and at my endurance pace haven’t found it that challenging or really needed any recovery after each piece. Some days I’ll do a bit more up to around 15,000m.

Have completed 2 HM this season. Not fast at all but was going real easy just to ensure I completed the distance.

How soon do you think I would be able to have a crack at the marathon distance??

Concept2 plan says to do 10 10,000m pieces over 2 months. I’m currently doing this distance every day.

It then says do 4 one hour pieces and 2 20,000m efforts.

After that it only says to do a 30,000m practice run before going for the big one.

Therefore once I’ve completed my current challenge I’m tempted to do a few HMs. Then try 30k before giving a marathon a go.

Is this sensible? Seems a world away from when I trained for my first running marathon. Going from HM to FM in running with just one distance inbetween would have seemed mad

Thanks in advance for any thoughts/advice.

[Sakly]

I did my first marathon this year (only 1 year and 9 month on the erg and never doing cardio stuff before). I did several HMs and 60mins on my standard training schedule and 3 times I rowed for ~2h approx 29-31k. One day when I had some time, I decided to do the FM to see how it feels. Went well and had no problems at all, even not drinking or eating during the FM.

[Dangerscouse]

Imo, what you suggest sounds good, especially after having done 30 x 10ks without a rest day. I'd always suggest a 30-32k distance just to get an idea of what to expect, although it might be better or worse on the day. Possibly a 25k session will be advisable too, especially if that is aligning with what your head is telling you is better. Confidence is a big part of it, so this is definitely something helpful.

The critical difference for an FM is the pace ie. if you want to achieve a specific time, or to just finish it. If you just want to finish, you could possibly do it after your 30 x 10ks.

[jcross485]

I'm working towards my first FM now; I have about 2.5mm lifetime meters on the erg and anticipate, based upon how my training is laid out, will be a bit over 3mm when the FM comes around by end of year.

That said, it depends on your goals like the others mentioned. Want to finish the distance? Keep up with your daily 10k's, slowly take up one long row per week targeting to max out anywhere from 25k - 30k, and you will be MORE than prepared. Want to race the distance? I think you will need something a bit more structured with more volume on the steady days and more intensity through workouts, both on the erg and with strength training. I am hoping to more or less race a FM / 50k and am looking to be at 75k+ per week (nearing 100k some weeks) with some intensity or quality meters in there, not just steady state, on top of strength work a few times of week.

[penkethj]

I did my first marathon this year (only 1 year and 9 month on the erg and never doing cardio stuff before). I did several HMs and 60mins on my standard training schedule and 3 times I rowed for ~2h approx 29-31k. One day when I had some time, I decided to do the FM to see how it feels. Went well and had no problems at all, even not drinking or eating during the FM.

Nice one. Your total metres and PB times are very good for someone who’s been rowing for less than 2 years? I’m only coming up to my first million metres now. Although have only just started ramping up the rowing due to running injury. Think I’ll do a couple more HM, then try a 30k ish distance and if that goes well maybe have a crack at marathon end of the year.

[penkethj]

Imo, what you suggest sounds good, especially after having done 30 x 10ks without a rest day. I'd always suggest a 30-32k distance just to get an idea of what to expect, although it might be better or worse on the day. Possibly a 25k session will be advisable too, especially if that is aligning with what your head is telling you is better. Confidence is a big part of it, so this is definitely something helpful.

The critical difference for an FM is the pace ie. if you want to achieve a specific time, or to just finish it. If you just want to finish, you could possibly do it after your 30 x 10ks.

Cool thanks. I think I’ll do a couple more HM distance efforts, then a 25km and 30km. If the 30km goes well I’ll consider having a crack at the FM.

In terms of the first FM I will just be aiming to finish. Will give me a benchmark and can work on beating the time with another one later on.

[penkethj]

I'm working towards my first FM now; I have about 2.5mm lifetime meters on the erg and anticipate, based upon how my training is laid out, will be a bit over 3mm when the FM comes around by end of year.

That said, it depends on your goals like the others mentioned. Want to finish the distance? Keep up with your daily 10k's, slowly take up one long row per week targeting to max out anywhere from 25k - 30k, and you will be MORE than prepared. Want to race the distance? I think you will need something a bit more structured with more volume on the steady days and more intensity through workouts, both on the erg and with strength training. I am hoping to more or less race a FM / 50k and am looking to be at 75k+ per week (nearing 100k some weeks) with some intensity or quality meters in there, not just steady state, on top of strength work a few times of week.

Sounds good. You have an awful lot more lifetime metres than me. I’m only now coming up to a million. Makes me feel like maybe I’m trying to go too big too soon. I do a lot of long distance running/cycling though so do think some of that will be transferable.

Just looking to finish first time out. Gives me that benchmark to try to beat next time out.

Keep us updated on your progress would be nice to hear how you get on.

[jcross485]

Sounds good. You have an awful lot more lifetime metres than me. I’m only now coming up to a million. Makes me feel like maybe I’m trying to go too big too soon. I do a lot of long distance running/cycling though so do think some of that will be transferable.

Just looking to finish first time out. Gives me that benchmark to try to beat next time out.

Keep us updated on your progress would be nice to hear how you get on.

I came into this with some running background and before that a big strength background as well. I was finding that running the volumes I wanted to and/or needed to in order to progress was just beating me up, hence enter the rower. I still get out and run from time to time but I have really taken to the rower.

That said, I don't know that you are trying to go too big too soon. While people do seem, from time to time, get some issues exasperated by rowing, I find it's been much kinder to my body, hence, I would think you don't have to be as cautious with building volume as you do with running. If anything, I've had a tendency to maybe over-emphasize building out a base before pushing the pyramid higher if that makes sense.

If just looking to finish, keep doing what you're doing and slowly work in one longer row per week until you get up to and feel ok with 30k to so, then give it a week or two of smart tapering (don't drop volume/intensity off the cliff, want to still stay sharp), and give it a go.

[penkethj]

Sounds good. You have an awful lot more lifetime metres than me. I’m only now coming up to a million. Makes me feel like maybe I’m trying to go too big too soon. I do a lot of long distance running/cycling though so do think some of that will be transferable.

Just looking to finish first time out. Gives me that benchmark to try to beat next time out.

Keep us updated on your progress would be nice to hear how you get on.

I came into this with some running background and before that a big strength background as well. I was finding that running the volumes I wanted to and/or needed to in order to progress was just beating me up, hence enter the rower. I still get out and run from time to time but I have really taken to the rower.

That said, I don't know that you are trying to go too big too soon. While people do seem, from time to time, get some issues exasperated by rowing, I find it's been much kinder to my body, hence, I would think you don't have to be as cautious with building volume as you do with running. If anything, I've had a tendency to maybe over-emphasize building out a base before pushing the pyramid higher if that makes sense.

If just looking to finish, keep doing what you're doing and slowly work in one longer row per week until you get up to and feel ok with 30k to so, then give it a week or two of smart tapering (don't drop volume/intensity off the cliff, want to still stay sharp), and give it a go.

Yeah 100% agree with this. I still plan to run a lot once I’m over current injury. But will definitely now keep the rowing up and focus on that rather than just using it now and then.

The one thing I’ve found amazing on the rowing machine is how quick the recovery is. I can do a lot of volume on the rowing machine day after day and feel ok. Running big mileage weeks however, feels so much harder on the body.

Half tempted to have a few months off running and really focus on the rowing and see what I can achieve. Got a few rowing goals I want to hit. Some feel quite close now. One still quite far away I think. Lol

[jcross485]

Yeah 100% agree with this. I still plan to run a lot once I’m over current injury. But will definitely now keep the rowing up and focus on that rather than just using it now and then.

The one thing I’ve found amazing on the rowing machine is how quick the recovery is. I can do a lot of volume on the rowing machine day after day and feel ok. Running big mileage weeks however, feels so much harder on the body.

Half tempted to have a few months off running and really focus on the rowing and see what I can achieve. Got a few rowing goals I want to hit. Some feel quite close now. One still quite far away I think. Lol

I got the rower mainly with the idea of cutting down some running volume, not much, but maybe 20% or so, and complimenting it with about the same time or a tad more on the rower as cross-training. It ended becoming my primary mode of endurance work now.

I still really enjoy running - I just don't enjoy how it makes me feel for the 24-48 hours after a big session compared to rowing. I can finish an aerobic session and go about my day; I can finish a hard session and with a meal and shower, go about my day.

Coming from a strength background into running (and now rowing), maintaining a bit of muscle and most importantly strength was a priority. I found that hard with running, especially when volume was getting up there. It is not an issue with rowing whatsoever; I am hanging on to much more muscle and strength comparatively.

One thing I do to scratch the running itch is to do row/run "bricks". I can get in a good session on the rower that taxes the system but not the structure like running would, then finish with a shorter run (generally about 1/2 the distance of the row). This seems to do what I am looking for personally.

I don't find direct 1:1 carry over from rowing fitness to running fitness or vice versa but I do find that my running improves with rowing improvements more so than the other way around.

[Carl Watts]

Hydration during the row is the secret really, it gets pretty much impossible after the 32K mark otherwise and you crash and burn.

Pretty much its sipping an electrolyte drink from the get go you need like FOUR 750ml bottles lined up within reach at the start.

Obviously pick a pace you can sustain to the finish and stick to it from the start.

[Sakly]

Hydration during the row is the secret really, it gets pretty much impossible after the 32K mark otherwise and you crash and burn.

I read that very often, but I had no problems to finish the FM without any drinking or eating. Pace for the first half was around 2:05, then picked it up to ~2:00 for the second half, so it also wasn't too slow.
Sure, you need to be hydrated well before start.
I'm sure, with drinking you can get a better result, when maxing out. I needed to drink 3l afterwards (including a hot bath).

[Sakly]

I did my first marathon this year (only 1 year and 9 month on the erg and never doing cardio stuff before). I did several HMs and 60mins on my standard training schedule and 3 times I rowed for ~2h approx 29-31k. One day when I had some time, I decided to do the FM to see how it feels. Went well and had no problems at all, even not drinking or eating during the FM.

Nice one. Your total metres and PB times are very good for someone who’s been rowing for less than 2 years? I’m only coming up to my first million metres now. Although have only just started ramping up the rowing due to running injury. Think I’ll do a couple more HM, then try a 30k ish distance and if that goes well maybe have a crack at marathon end of the year.

My performance on the erg was already good in the beginning, as I had a decent strength and endurance level from my bodyweight and weight training. My technique was improving quite fast, I get a good idea for new movements very fast, so that wasn't an issue too.
Total metres are based on 3-4 seasons per week, depending on time and how hard my gym sessions were (=how much recovery I need). Typically going for 10k/60min/HM in my sessions. Rarely doing some intervals.

Your plan sounds sufficient

[Carl Watts]

Hydration during the row is the secret really, it gets pretty much impossible after the 32K mark otherwise and you crash and burn.

I read that very often, but I had no problems to finish the FM without any drinking or eating. Pace for the first half was around 2:05, then picked it up to ~2:00 for the second half, so it also wasn't too slow.
Sure, you need to be hydrated well before start.
I'm sure, with drinking you can get a better result, when maxing out. I needed to drink 3l afterwards (including a hot bath).

I guess everyone is slightly different and the age when you do it as well.

4 x 750ml is 3 litres and its better taken during the row not at the finish. I had a target finish of under 3 hours at age 40.

The first attempt without drinking ended up in me seeing "Stars" at the 32K mark and I had to quit. That said I'm not really an endurance type and I like to do 30 minutes of anything then get off. Anything 5K or less was the best at race pace.

[Sakly]

Hydration during the row is the secret really, it gets pretty much impossible after the 32K mark otherwise and you crash and burn.

I read that very often, but I had no problems to finish the FM without any drinking or eating. Pace for the first half was around 2:05, then picked it up to ~2:00 for the second half, so it also wasn't too slow.
Sure, you need to be hydrated well before start.
I'm sure, with drinking you can get a better result, when maxing out. I needed to drink 3l afterwards (including a hot bath).

I guess everyone is slightly different and the age when you do it as well.

4 x 750ml is 3 litres and its better taken during the row not at the finish. I had a target finish of under 3 hours at age 40.

The first attempt without drinking ended up in me seeing "Stars" at the 32K mark and I had to quit. That said I'm not really an endurance type and I like to do 30 minutes of anything then get off. Anything 5K or less was the best at race pace.

Agree, everyone is different.
My first FM is 2 month ago, so age 42. I started with steady state pace 2:05 at low rate 18, halfway when feeling absolutely fine I increased pace to ~2:00 at rate 18-19. Overall pace was 2:02.6 and at the end I felt like I could go on, not really drained to much, despite not eating or drinking anything.
I also agree that drinking during the FM would be better, but I cannot row and drink same time and I wanted to prevent losing rhythm.
Probably this would turn out differently, when I go for a TT in the FM and start with higher pace.