Goldilocks spm zone for power and aerobic fitness

[Jerome]

I’m interested in what you consider the optimal stroke rates for balancing power and aerobic fitness?

The reason I’m asking is that when first jumped on the erg I basically rowed everything at 28+ spm. After reading more on erging, dropped my stroke rate to 20 spm for longer pieces, especially the last few years. Consequently, my power went up, but my ability to maintain higher rates went down.

To illustrate: recently I managed a 30r18 at 1.59.8, but today did an ugly 10kr22 at 2.02.0.

Speedwork increased my ability to rate up at shorter distances, but this doesn’t seem to transfer to longer distances.

So I’m looking for a stroke rate that allows longer pieces more aerobic, without developing a soft stroke.

[p_b82]

I don't think any-one can give you that answer, you need to find what works for yourself.

But I was in a very similar boat as you in my first year - high rate low effort per stroke, as my fitness couldn't support a strong leg drive. (and I used that as a crutch for allowing poor technique to settle in).

I've also dropped my rate this year to concentrate of a better drive - and thus more power - but I've thrown in the odd high rate session to keep the muscle memory in-place; luckily I was able to translate the same Wmin I could generate for 2k (~200w@r20) when sprinting at 371W@r34. not huge numbers but a significant improvement over my previous best attempt.

I'm sure if you start to focus on doing some more work at higher rates you'll improve if you've not done any for a bit - and through that you'll find the new sweet-spot that balances your Cv fitness with the power generation needs.

[Dangerscouse]

It is difficult to say, but it does prove my belief that it is important to maintain all different types of spm as they can all too easily become a 'use it or lose it' scenario.

As a general rule, and probably not surprisingly, I find r24 is a great compromise, and that's my FM stroke rate. It needs both power and aerobic fitness if you pace it correctly.

Regarding your 10kr22, could this be down to other factors? A bad day? Poor recovery / sleep / nutrition etc?

Are the two sessions really comparable? If yes, I'd suggest you need to accept a step backwards to take two steps forward, and accept r22+ isn't where you want it to be, but it will be eventually.

[mromero680]

I know when I first started my stroke rate averaged about 24spm. My steady state rows are now at 18-20spm. I try to mix in intervals at 26-28 once a week but they leave me gassed. When I get the urge to suffer through another 2k, I'll need to maintain a 26-28 rate to get to 7 minutes.

[iain]

How long have you continued the change? Sure going R22 will be hard if all of your rowing has been at R18, but stick with it and you will find that it becomes easier. One thing I would say is that I found I was modifying my stroke at low rates in ways that made my stroke less efficient (excessive leanback in my case), so worth filming yourself from the side to make sure that technique hasn't deteriorated.

Unfortunately I don't fully understand what you are asking. "Power" is a measurement of the speed, so SPM for power will usually be high while SPM for aerobic fitness is more what you wish to maintain. You can get fit at most SPMs that you can maintain and is down to preference. I am sure that the gym bunnies who row 40SPM for 10 min bursts at relatively slow paces are improving their fitness! If you mean you want a single rating, then I think that the optimum rating is a personal thing. Broadly the stronger (relative to fitness) the lower the rating and the fitter (relative to fitness) the higher it will be.

[Jerome]

Thanks, all!

Just to be clear: I’m aware that a lot is personal and that there is no one size fits all solution.
As for recent changes, I’ve been incorporating shorter, longer intervals or faster 5ks at least once a week several months now. And I still find it difficult to maintain higher ratings (i.e. 22+) for longer distances and losing relatively a lot of watts per stroke when doing so.

Good suggestion on checking my form, Ian. I’m pretty sure my form is different, as it definitely feels different.

Maybe my initial question could be better phrased as how to get better at rating up, without losing too much watts per stroke. Of course the obvious solution is get better at higher rates by rowing at higher rates.
But how to best do so?

Anyway, I was triggered by a comment by Justin Farina (garage athlete) to a Travis Garner video on U2 training:

‘Thanks Travis. This has come up a lot in our training group at GARAGEATHLETE (for SkiErg as well). The bulk of our "steady state" efforts are right in that 70-80% MHR sweet spot as we aren't putting in more than 8-10 hours of volume.

One thing I have found beneficial is completing a lot of my SS session at a higher stroke rate (say 26-28) rather than 18-22, as one of the limiting factors I found when it came to time trials was the ability to sustain higher cadences. Combined with typical speed/power work throughout the week, along with the occasional hard, low rate tempo session, my power/stroke hasn't been compromised, and I have set some PB's at shorter distances (1min, 500m, 1k) as well as 30min and 10k.’
https://youtu.be/QXSIfSocmQc?si=m7eC7jnXQCGATeQ9

But 26-28 seems pretty high to me for SS. So I’m probably have to experiment and find my personal optimal range.

[p_b82]

Does your power per stroke get maintained when you attempt to up your rating but keep the same relative power per stroke?

EG from 200w@r20 to 300w@r30 etc?

Obviously distance wise we can't ramp up the power and keep going as long, but if you can't actually generate the same stroke power at the higher rates, I would say that's probably worth looking to do some corrective work there as that might then feed into finding the Wmin/rating sweet spot for you.

[jcross485]

I'll throw it out there.

Here's the caveat - nobody has to pick one stroke rate to row at forever. All kinds of stroke rates will provide benefit and working with a variety compliment each other. Lower stroke rates help to develop good technique and power per stroke which is important for speed. Higher stroke rates don't stress the musculature as much as lower stroke rates (at a given pace) but tax the aerobic system. Without developing power per stroke, you'll never achieve your fastest times. Without developing the aerobic system and turnover with higher stroke rate work, you'll never achieve your fastest times either.

That said - if it were me, personally, and only could row one stroke rate for the rest of time, as a swiss army knife kind of approach (good at a lot of things, not the best at everything), it would be 20 spm.

[MPx]

...and a slightly different view. When I started (1997) I knew nothing about erging, proper form or (sadly) much else! The way I erg is what became ingrained by simply sitting down on the machine and pulling the chain. I've always done a variety of workouts and always included short intervals, long intervals, and distance pieces - typically up to 10k but very occasionally and hour or HM. My "natural" rhythm for all but short intervals used to settle on r27, that's now crept up to r28. Of course over the intervening years I've been told/learned/found out/read about all sorts of stuff that basically suggests doing things competely differently! So of my 7 outings in a typical a week, 4 or 5 will be r20 (sometimes do a 20/22/24/22/20 rate pyramid for a bit of variation!), 1 hard session around r30 and the sprint intervals higher than that. But despite the millions of metres covered at these rates, it remains the case that for me r27/8 is the rate at which I feel I'm using least energy and can "last" the longest. Hence my very occasional hour or HM sessions - which tend to be only in response to a competition/challenge demand so more TT than SS - will be done at r27/8 which is what I'd describe as my goldilocks rate.

[jamesg]

I’m interested in what you consider the optimal stroke rates for balancing power and aerobic fitness?

Initial work is in 2 phases: first the longish work at 18-20 to learn to row and get the basics in place, then aerobic at 20 to 24. In a typical Level 3 Interactive schedule, UT1 was done like this:

1 TEST 1x20'UT1 2x12'UT1 2x15'UT1 2x10'UT1
2 40'UT2 2x14'UT1 2x16'UT1 2x18'UT1 2x15'UT1
3 45'UT2 2x17'UT1 2x19'UT1 4x10'UT1 2x18'UT1
4 30'UT2 2x7'AT 2x10'UT1 2x7'AT 2x12'UT1

Basic tech requirement to get any training effect is a full stroke as to length and applied force, as used in the initial test.

[Dangerscouse]

...and a slightly different view. When I started (1997) I knew nothing about erging, proper form or (sadly) much else! The way I erg is what became ingrained by simply sitting down on the machine and pulling the chain.

Fast forward three years and this is exactly what I did, for far too long. It wasn't until I did my ultra distance training in 2016 that I decided to do a bit of research into erging.

Thankfully, most of what I did was more or less right / tolerable so it didn't need much changing, and up until I had Covid I'd still have said r28-30 was, if not Goldilocks, definitely a comfortable zone. Now, I seem to start fraying around the edges all too quickly with r28+