Concept D and Concept E wattage discrepancy.

[waqar]

Good evening people.
Been rowing a for a while on my home Concept 2 D rower(got the tee shirt, the long sleeved one and the sweatshirt ). Mechanically perfect. Beautiful catch on it.
Recently joined a gym with a few E's.
Jumped on to one, Got the drag the the same as the one at home, connected the ergdata app and did a quick 3 rounds of interval while waiting for the leg press to become available.
The level of effort was about the same and drag was the same. However the wattage was like 50 up on the D.
Now of the 2 the pull on the D feels so much better.
But... What's a the possible cause of this discrepancy?

[Citroen]

It will be down to how much crud and cruft is in the flywheel cage of the model E (I'd expect a lot with a gym machine). Being higher off the floor may have a psychological effect on you.

You'll only know if you can clean the dirty machine so that it gets the same drag on the same damper lever setting as your home machine.

[Sakly]

It will be down to how much crud and cruft is in the flywheel cage of the model E (I'd expect a lot with a gym machine). Being higher off the floor may have a psychological effect on you.

You'll only know if you can clean the dirty machine so that it gets the same drag on the same damper lever setting as your home machine.

He used the same drag as he wrote.
The thing is "level of effort" is very subjective, so not a valid data point (like given drag by machine). So the wattage is not comparable.
About what wattage are you talking for the difference of 50W? 800W and 850W or 250W and 300W? That would also make a huge difference. Anyway, subjective data cannot be compared.

[waqar]

so the D shows around 50-60 watts and the E shows around 100-120 watts.
To be fair I'd consider the current data almost anecdotal as no real vigour was taken to making it really scientific.
the E felt lighter too. Catch felt right so from a mechanical perspective muscles are getting used at when you would expect them to.
They have a few E's so may as well get scientific about it and increase the data to analyse.
I'll create a variable interval split on ErgData and do the same workout on all of them over successive gym visits.
Starting with the D at home.
Going to take a week or so but may as well.
The D at home gets a thorough clean/oil on chain every month or so.
The E's at the gym do look in good condition.
They've got a whole Concept 2 section with a SkiErg and cycles too.

[Sakly]

50-60W in intervals? This is hardly work at all - especially for intervals, but probably you are very small, very old, very weak or combination of it.
So the difference is around +100% offset to your D at home. Probably you are only warmed up better in the gym or there is something other strange thing happening. For a difference of 100% I have no idea.

[waqar]

That's what makes me think it might be a issue with the D.
Hopefully I'll get more of an idea after more investigation.
yeah I'm old. But hey still on it.
Event Best Pace Date Rank Action
100m 0:21.7 1:48.5 02/12/19
500m 2:09.5 2:09.5 01/29/19
1,000m 4:37.5 2:18.7 01/09/19
2,000m 9:24.2 2:21.0 02/10/19
5,000m 24:49.0 2:28.9 02/15/19
6,000m 34:37.2 2:53.1 03/04/19
10,000m 48:14.6 2:24.7 02/12/19
21,097m 1:55:17.4 2:43.9 06/30/19
1:00.0 261m 1:54.9 02/06/19

[Carl Watts]

There was a hot chick on the leg press in front of you.

[Sakly]

yeah I'm old. But hey still on it.

Good you are still going
Probably Carl is right

Curious about your observations on the other E's.

[waqar]

There was a hot chick on the leg press in front of you.

[waqar]

Workout 537m with 1 minute easy, 2x536m with 1 minute easy
Did the one on the D at lunchtime. Did the one on the E around 5.30. Felt stronger on the model D.

Machine. Distance. time. pace
Concept2 D 1,609m 8:47.9 2:44.0
Concept2 E 1,609m 7:49.9 2:26.0

[JaapvanE]

yeah I'm old. But hey still on it.

This is the key thing here: enjoy the machine and the excercise you can do with it.

That's what makes me think it might be a issue with the D.
Hopefully I'll get more of an idea after more investigation.

There doesn't have to be anything wrong with the machine. It is a mechanical device, with time and use it will change. Initially, it will have less tolerances and will be a bit stiff. After a couple of thousand kilometers, it will become a bit smoother as it will wear in.

My gym recieved brand new C2's two weeks ago, after the monitor failed on one of the ancient Model D's after years of neglect. Despite never recieving a drop of oil, the somehow felt faster/snoother than my own machine. New machines felt a bit heavier.

And decent placement is a thing. One thing on the new C2 I noticed instantly while they stood there was that the slide didn't return to its normal position. Admittingly it felt a bit stiff on the rail, but a closer inspection learned that the front legs were 1 cm higher due to a different floor. But that makes recovery more difficult, so the stroke feels odd as well.

[waqar]

My one is a 2011 vintage.
Recently switched out the PM3(managed to get 70 quid for the PM3!!) for a PM5 and got a Coosspo heart monitor.
Finding Ergdata Workout of the day a really good motivator.
Compared to the model Es in the gym its got a much better catch.
As you push back with the legs you can immediately feel it activating core and lats.
There was a definite difference on the catch on the model E, felt a bit softer.
Going to continue with the ones at the gym. Going to try an follow the same process.
Do a workout at lunchtime and then proceed with one at the gym after work. They've got 5 of them. 1 down 4 to go.
If they all give the same kind of data then I'm thinking its the sensor/generator module.
Looking at the video on the concept2 site and it looks like a 10-15 minute task to switch out.
Still over the last couple of months I've started back on the rower after not really using it regularly.
Worked on the technique, blending technique drills into every workout.
And even though It's not showing time/power/calorie/distance properly its showing progression and its consistent in its wrongness .
It just irks me though.

[waqar]

I think Carl might be right.
Looking at the HR its 144 at the gym. At home its around 116
Glad nothing's broken.
Interesting nonetheless.

[Sakly]

Looking at the HR its 144 at the gym. At home its around 116
Interesting nonetheless.

Probably you are only warmed up better in the gym

Your HR let's assume you go harder in the gym, probably because of better warmup or because you are lifted by the gym environment