What is “Elite” on the RowErg?

[HornetMaX]

Another place to look is the Nonathlon. https://www.nonathlon.com/ranking.php

(Sorry for the slight off-topic)

I'm actually working on something similar (and I'm essentially done, see this post viewtopic.php?f=17&t=207581).

I grab all the ranked workouts of a season from c2 rankings (*) and then score them between 0 and 1000 points "a la decathlon".

Scoring is simple: I use the world record for the event (across all categories, M/F, HW/LW, any age) for 1000pts as reported by c2. For 0 pts I use 3 times the WR distance or time (this essentially allows anybody or almost to get a few points, good for morale ). Then linear interpolation between the two. This scoring is applied to *any* entry, no matter gender, age and weight.

Then I can define which events are part of the "c2athlon", e.g. 2K + 5K + 10K and can compute an overall score for an athlete (with an option to have/not have an entry for each selected event in order to appear in the resulting ranking).
Once that is done I can have an overall ranking for the c2athlon (any gender/age/weight) but also restrict it to one specific category (gender.age range/ weight). I can even combine multiple erg events (e.g. 2K and 10K on the rowerg + 2K and 5K on the skierg), but for bikeerg I have no WR data.

This .csv file is an example: 2023 ranked workouts, combined scores for rowerg 2K + 5K + 10K (only rowerg, no slides or dynamic, only verified entries): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... drive_link

For what is worth I think the definition of 'Elite' should be absolute (that's why I score with respect to the world record): in my example above the #1 entry has 2864pts (if he was holding the 3 WRs he would have 3000pts). With my 2023 ranked workouts I'm #127 with 2514pts, but of course if I narrow down to my age (40-49 or even 45-49), my gender (yes, same F are better than me and my LW, I higher than that, much higher if I narrow down to country too. But yeah, as somebody said, I'm #1 of my garage

(*) Sadly there's an annoying bug in the c2 rankings pages that randomly causes duplicate entries (not a big deal) and missed entries (that's a big deal) when 2 or more athletes have the same 'Pos.' (i.e. the same performance) and they happen to be across 2 consecutive pages.

[deadlifting265]

Regarding defining elite for age groupers, perhaps within 10% of each world record in that respecting age category could be classed as "world" level?......

In my age group for example ie 40/49, I believe sub 6.10 is the definition of elite, but if one checks the results of every major/national champs in the aforementioned age group over say the last 5years, then sub 6.20 is "elite"...........

[HornetMaX]

Regarding defining elite for age groupers, perhaps within 10% of each world record in that respecting age category could be classed as "world" level?......

The problem I see with that is that some WR for some age categories are inconsistent (meaning a better time for, let's say, 60-65 than for 55-60).
Especially true for very specific categories (e.g. age range and gender and weight class) and/or less common events (e.g. FM).

One thing I can easily do is to score F entries with respect to F WRs (and not M WRs).
But to be honest, I find it kind of interesting to compare M and F on equal scoring.

[deadlifting265]

Regarding defining elite for age groupers, perhaps within 10% of each world record in that respecting age category could be classed as "world" level?......

The problem I see with that is that some WR for some age categories are inconsistent (meaning a better time for, let's say, 60-65 than for 55-60).
Especially true for very specific categories (e.g. age range and gender and weight class) and/or less common events (e.g. FM).

One thing I can easily do is to score F entries with respect to F WRs (and not M WRs).
But to be honest, I find it kind of interesting to compare M and F on equal scoring.

[deadlifting265]

Regarding defining elite for age groupers, perhaps within 10% of each world record in that respecting age category could be classed as "world" level?......

The problem I see with that is that some WR for some age categories are inconsistent (meaning a better time for, let's say, 60-65 than for 55-60).
Especially true for very specific categories (e.g. age range and gender and weight class) and/or less common events (e.g. FM).

One thing I can easily do is to score F entries with respect to F WRs (and not M WRs).
But to be honest, I find it kind of interesting to compare M and F on equal scoring.

My take on elite(age group wise, male and heavyweight only)

40/49- sub 6.10

50/59- sub 6.20

60/69- sub 6.40

70/79- sub 7

Competition results(as mentioned) are a different matter however....

[Cyclingman1]

1. This question is being asked in a C2 Forum. If one's times are not in the C2 WRs, C2 rankings, or C2 regatta results, then there is no point in hunting them down. College and Olympic rowers have their own thing going.

2. Coming up with precise numbers to define "elite," is probably not necessary. For those who have been erging for a number of years and keep up with the aforementioned standings to some extent, it's not too hard to recognize that there are a few elite ergers, both past and present. I prefer to use "dominant." I do think that sustained excellence over at least a few years is a requirement. Also being at some percent level in a standing is not an automatic entry into "elite."

3. I have some candidates. By far the most dominant rower of the last fifteen years in the 60-75 range is TJ Oesterling of Hawaii. However, he seems to be retired. Currently Tom Darling and Steve Krum are elites. From the past I would include Anne Bourlioux and Steve Roedde, both from Canada. There are others. These individuals pretty much kick butt when they get on a rower, or did.

4. Nothing wrong with being good or very good on a erg. But "elite" is a definite step beyond. Even being at the top of standings is not a guarantee of being "elite." All factors have to be taken into consideration.

[G-dub]

You’ve done fairly well, Jim

[Cyclingman1]

Hey Glenn,

I see where you crossed into the dark side, that is, over sixty. I need to visit Asheville again, if I could just figure out the roads.

My erging has had many ups and downs over the last twelve years, a lot of it health related. I haven't done terribly, but I didn't and haven't gotten to where I probably should have. Of course, don't we all have that lament? This yr, I'm rowing like I'm stuck in mud and I'm not quite sure why. I'm not injured or sick. I have to accept it to some extent.

Thanks for the kind words. You and Ed [NJ Ed] were always encouraging. While mentioning names, Steve Roedde really got me going 12 yrs ago. And I do recall you kicking my butt at Ga Tech a few yrs back, maybe 2017. In any event, back in the gym tomorrow.