New Personal Best! Brag About That New Pb!

[HornetMaX]

Do others find that ~ 28 degree heat plus has a significant effect on performance in the absence of good ventilation? It just seems extreme that it happened at a pace that I'd normally be able to do for 9 or 10k!

From my experience (and what I've read around, including other sports like running), yes definitely.
The increase in HR for a given pace due to heavy heat may be so high that you could go beyond what you can usually sustain for that distance.

Side notes:

1. drinking helps. I can't imagine doing an HM without drinking (1.5L for me). For me (at least): no drinking during HM = much higher HR (I verified this at least twice).
2. Ventilation: the Wahoo headwind is stupid expensive, but surprisingly good (lot of air, small footprint)

[Dangerscouse]

Do others find that ~ 28 degree heat plus has a significant effect on performance in the absence of good ventilation? It just seems extreme that it happened at a pace that I'd normally be able to do for 9 or 10k!

You do adapt to it, to some extent, but I do struggle when it's notably hotter. It was 27c this morning in my erg room, and when the sweat is dripping off you, there's definitely a mental component to battle through too.

I say about adapting to it as I've done hot dynamic Pilates once a week for 10 years (it's not hot yoga) but that was circa 35c when it was a full room, so I'd be starting to sweat before the class had started on occasions!

If I had a break for a few weeks, due to injury, I'd struggle with the heat on my first one or two classes, but I would adapt to it.

I never stop for a drink for a continuous piece unless it's longer than 32k, but that might very well be detrimental. I have drank a bit of water occasionally during intervals, but as they're so horrible whatever you do, it's hard to tell if water has had any benefit.

[DavidA]

Do others find that ~ 28 degree heat plus has a significant effect on performance in the absence of good ventilation? It just seems extreme that it happened at a pace that I'd normally be able to do for 9 or 10k!

Absolutely. Heat, and high humidity, has a big effect on my abilities.

David

[jinefune]

i started off @ 1:32.5 and ended up with a time of 1:35.1 not that its a bad time, i know i could have done better, as i was distracted by my mother standing behind me (she said something and i yelled at her to please go away) the fastest i think i hade ever done one before was around 1:37.0- 1:38.0 range

[KeithT]

i started off @ 1:32.5 and ended up with a time of 1:35.1 not that its a bad time, i know i could have done better, as i was distracted by my mother standing behind me (she said something and i yelled at her to please go away) the fastest i think i hade ever done one before was around 1:37.0- 1:38.0 range

For what distance?

[Sakly]

i started off @ 1:32.5 and ended up with a time of 1:35.1 not that its a bad time, i know i could have done better, as i was distracted by my mother standing behind me (she said something and i yelled at her to please go away) the fastest i think i hade ever done one before was around 1:37.0- 1:38.0 range

For what distance?

Sounds like a 500

[p_b82]

Decided that my distance was starting to tend to the shorter sessions so threw in 1hour - aim 13k @r20... (2:18.4 pace) based on my 30min r20.

12,737m was previous open rate pb - even grabbed a quick slurp of water at the 10k point - more as a distraction reset than because I needed it.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	Hr
1:00:00	13,091m	2:17.4	135	763	19	173
7:30.0	1,628m	2:18.2	133	756	20	155
15:00.0	1,633m	2:17.7	134	760	20	165
22:30.0	1,631m	2:17.9	133	758	20	172
30:00.0	1,627m	2:18.2	132	755	20	173
37:30.0	1,634m	2:17.6	134	761	20	177
45:00.0	1,629m	2:18.1	133	757	20	176
52:30.0	1,626m	2:18.3	132	754	19	180
1:00:00	1,682m	2:13.7	146	803	20	187

Pleased with this.

Turns out the last 3 months on the 11th/12 I've set a pb.... so I guess next month I'd better have a crack at 10k!

[Dangerscouse]

Turns out the last 3 months on the 11th/12 I've set a pb.... so I guess next month I'd better have a crack at 10k!

Congrats, this is a significant moment with it being r20, and you definitely have to have a crack at the 10k.

[Sakly]

Decided that my distance was starting to tend to the shorter sessions so threw in 1hour - aim 13k @r20... (2:18.4 pace) based on my 30min r20.

12,737m was previous open rate pb - even grabbed a quick slurp of water at the 10k point - more as a distraction reset than because I needed it.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	Hr
1:00:00	13,091m	2:17.4	135	763	19	173
7:30.0	1,628m	2:18.2	133	756	20	155
15:00.0	1,633m	2:17.7	134	760	20	165
22:30.0	1,631m	2:17.9	133	758	20	172
30:00.0	1,627m	2:18.2	132	755	20	173
37:30.0	1,634m	2:17.6	134	761	20	177
45:00.0	1,629m	2:18.1	133	757	20	176
52:30.0	1,626m	2:18.3	132	754	19	180
1:00:00	1,682m	2:13.7	146	803	20	187

Pleased with this.

Turns out the last 3 months on the 11th/12 I've set a pb.... so I guess next month I'd better have a crack at 10k!

Wow, that's a good improvement on the hour, especially compared to open rate
You can probably destroy your old 10k PB

[p_b82]

Wow, that's a good improvement on the hour, especially compared to open rate
You can probably destroy your old 10k PB

Thanks - I think I'm going to aim to break 45mins, on a "not great from consistency perspective" training run I've already managed 9,779m in 45 mins, so I'm not far off.

[Pendolino]

From my experience (and what I've read around, including other sports like running), yes definitely.
The increase in HR for a given pace due to heavy heat may be so high that you could go beyond what you can usually sustain for that distance.

Side notes:

1. drinking helps. I can't imagine doing an HM without drinking (1.5L for me). For me (at least): no drinking during HM = much higher HR (I verified this at least twice).
2. Ventilation: the Wahoo headwind is stupid expensive, but surprisingly good (lot of air, small footprint)

I'm glad it's not just me then! I did my (gently paced) HM devoid of water breaks, and it was about the limit of what I felt comfortable with. Anything longer and I'd have to spend 100 metres crawling with one hand whilst taking a drink! I know it's fine to stop for a drink, but psychologically I need to keep the metres moving to satisfy the old OCD lol.

You do adapt to it, to some extent, but I do struggle when it's notably hotter. It was 27c this morning in my erg room, and when the sweat is dripping off you, there's definitely a mental component to battle through too.

I say about adapting to it as I've done hot dynamic Pilates once a week for 10 years (it's not hot yoga) but that was circa 35c when it was a full room, so I'd be starting to sweat before the class had started on occasions!

If I had a break for a few weeks, due to injury, I'd struggle with the heat on my first one or two classes, but I would adapt to it.

I never stop for a drink for a continuous piece unless it's longer than 32k, but that might very well be detrimental. I have drank a bit of water occasionally during intervals, but as they're so horrible whatever you do, it's hard to tell if water has had any benefit.

I've always tolerated heat poorly - even sat doing nothing on a sun lounger in 30 degree + heat, my HR will be sitting above 100 bpm consistently. I've never considered adapting to it, and I take my hat off to you for doing something as horrible sounding as 'hot yoga'! A sauna is literally the worst place for me to be!

Speaking of HR, I finally bit the bullet and got a Polar H10. I'm using the Polar H10 ECG Analysis 3rd Party app which gives a ton of useful metrics. Something that's surprised me though is how slow I have to go to keep my HR in the 'hold a conversation' zone of 135 - 145 ish bpm - we're talking around 2:19 / 500 m! Am I ruining all my hard work by doing this? By hard work, I mean all my SS's that I've been rowing at near maximum ever since I started, even though I know I shouldn't have...! Or am I safe to be strict about it, so long as I'm putting the hard work into my weekly intervals? It just feels wrong to row so placidly for so long, even though I know the evidence is saying I'm at just the right pace...

I did a 7 x 500 m yesterday and saw my HR hit 187 near the end of the last interval, against my theoretical maximum of '220 - age' of 185. So I'm not skimping where it counts, but is this enough to maintain/improve on what I've done so far?

Absolutely. Heat, and high humidity, has a big effect on my abilities.

David

Again, good to know it's not just me suffering. Thankfully it's cooled down a bit now!

Also apologies for not replying sooner to everyone - I had a whole message typed out a few days ago and Internet went down at the critical moment...

[HornetMaX]

I'm glad it's not just me then! I did my (gently paced) HM devoid of water breaks, and it was about the limit of what I felt comfortable with. Anything longer and I'd have to spend 100 metres crawling with one hand whilst taking a drink! I know it's fine to stop for a drink, but psychologically I need to keep the metres moving to satisfy the old OCD lol.

I use a camelback for my HM (and FM, of course): Hydrapak Force 3L (likely, any other would do too) filled with 1.5L of water (for a HM) and some isotonic stuff.

If hot, I also throw some ice in it and put it in a thermo bag (Deuter Streamer Thermo Bag 3.0L). I hang the whole thing next to me and drink every 12-15min without stopping: basically no impact on my pace (esp. at HM/FM pace) but it disrupts a bit my breathing and HR. Still, the impact on HR is massive if I don't drink (see here).

[Sakly]

As I did a full marathon recently, I know that I even don't need to drink during a marathon. I was well hydrated at the start and the pace was not all out, but also not too slow (2.02.6). Probably this would change when attacking a PB, so going all out for this distance, but for my HM full effort (pace 1:52) it was the same - no drinking, but very sweaty.

[HornetMaX]

As I did a full marathon recently, I know that I even don't need to drink during a marathon. I was well hydrated at the start and the pace was not all out, but also not too slow (2.02.6). Probably this would change when attacking a PB, so going all out for this distance, but for my HM full effort (pace 1:52) it was the same - no drinking, but very sweaty.

It could be we're just different with respect to that. Or it could be that if you had been drinking during your FM and HM you would have ended with better times and/or lower HR

It's easy to measure it: do an HM at a steady state pace (not PB, something easy for you, I do 2:11 pace for "zone 2" but you do surely better than that) without drinking, taking your weight before and after the HM. The week after do the same (same pace) with some drinking (1-1.5L for the HM). And compare HR across the two (assuming similar ambient temp and humidity).

[Dangerscouse]

Something that's surprised me though is how slow I have to go to keep my HR in the 'hold a conversation' zone of 135 - 145 ish bpm - we're talking around 2:19 / 500 m! Am I ruining all my hard work by doing this? By hard work, I mean all my SS's that I've been rowing at near maximum ever since I started, even though I know I shouldn't have...! Or am I safe to be strict about it, so long as I'm putting the hard work into my weekly intervals? It just feels wrong to row so placidly for so long, even though I know the evidence is saying I'm at just the right pace...

I did a 7 x 500 m yesterday and saw my HR hit 187 near the end of the last interval, against my theoretical maximum of '220 - age' of 185. So I'm not skimping where it counts, but is this enough to maintain/improve on what I've done so far?

Broadly speaking, and I say broadly as I'm always aware that it's not an exact science and everyone responds differently, you should be doing your steady state as slow as they need to be. So, forget all about actual pace and aim for a HR range, although this is also subjective (some people say it should never exceed 70%, and ideally be closer to 65%, and others advocate 75% or even up to 80%). I like to change these zones based on intuition, experience and mood, but they rarely exceed 75%. I'd choose a grey zone session (circa 85%) over a 80% session as I find it provides more adaptions to fitness.

Pick a range that you think suits you best, but try to find what feels most appropriate for recoverability so you're prepared for the faster, more intense sessions.

Rowing at a very manageable pace is a good thing if you're thrashing it out on enough occasions too. It will be difficult to start with to slow down as your ego will be screaming at you, but it does get easier. Do what you should, not what you could