Breathing

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 29th, 2006, 9:38 pm

Yesterday I experimented with breathing out at both the end of the catch and the end of the drive. I only did this for a minute but it worked very well, and I'm looking forward to doing it more.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 29th, 2006, 9:42 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(H_2O @ Jan 13 2006, 03:40 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Exhale at catch and finish, inhale accordingly, ie. two breaths per stroke cycle. </td></tr></table> It's nice to see an affirmation of this. Thanks for sharing.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 30th, 2006, 5:27 pm

It is rather warm today, my dog was running around and then i noticed him panting from the heat. Now if panting is so bad, then why do dogs do it, and horses etc??? I also noticed that all of his panting was blowing the air "out" and not trying to breathe any more in. Perhaps the failing in panting with humans is the breathing "in" of too much oxygen, rather than the constant breathing out of carbon dioxide, the latter maintaining the proper pH balance in the lungs. Here's a link that explains the importance of this balance. <a href='http://www.nqnet.com/buteyko/what_is_buteyko.html' target='_blank'>http://www.nqnet.com/buteyko/what_is_buteyko.html</a>

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 30th, 2006, 5:32 pm

Here are some breathing rates for animals: 12-20 . . human adult at rest 50 . . . . . human adult during activity 40 . . . . . human baby 25 . . . . . woodchuck 12 per hour . . . hibernating woodchuck 100 . . . hamster 2 . . . . . hibernating hamster 120 . . . . frog My rate while sleeping or at rest is 7 times a minute. It's amazing that a hibernating woodchuck breathes only 12 times an hour.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 30th, 2006, 5:49 pm

Normal breathing rates for dogs are from 10 to 30 breaths per minute, and up to 200 pants per minute during exercise.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 30th, 2006, 5:52 pm

A good point: "Increased heart and breathing rates during exercise facilitate an increased uptake of oxygen and release of carbon dioxide by the lungs."

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 30th, 2006, 7:42 pm

Here are some results from a 23 minute incremental treadmill test by an elite male distance runner. These are listed on pages 101-103 of "Training Distance Runners", by Coe and Martin. The runner might have been Ken Martin, but I'm not sure of this. Maximums 62 breaths per minute 176 liters of expired air per minute tidal volume = 176/62 = 2.84 liters = the size of each breath heart rate = 188 bpm Considering 62 breaths per minute at the end of a 23 minute run, breathing once per stroke in a 2k is not nearly enough.

[old] razorfizh · Post by **[old] razorfizh** » January 30th, 2006, 8:19 pm

I was following a previous thread on breathing back in Dec and also read up on it in the latest C2 magazine that I got. The quote there was that "most rowers take 1 breath per stroke" so I was figuring I was the odd ball and have been trying hard since then during my training pieces to change my bad habits. However - its been h*** trying to change . Even on UT2 pieces my natural breathing is as follows - at the top of the driveI breath out - coming up on the catch, breath in, breath out, breath in - at the catch let air out (because my chest is compressed at the catch) - on the drive breath in Fact is however, if I concentrate on breathing this way: - breath out coming up on the catch - breath in on the drive I can clearly see, that my HR begins to go down. For me, proof is in the HR but doesn't make it any easier changing my habits.

[old] whp4 · Post by **[old] whp4** » January 30th, 2006, 9:40 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 30 2006, 01:27 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>It is rather warm today, my dog was running around and then i noticed him panting from the heat. Now if panting is so bad, then why do dogs do it, and horses etc??? </td></tr></table> John, dogs pant to cool themselves by evaporative cooling - they don't sweat over most of their bodies, unlike humans. They also don't breathe very deeply while panting; the air movement seems to be mostly in the "windpipe", so it doesn't really affect the gaseous exchange rate very much. More on the topic <a href='http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/v ... t00018.htm' target='_blank'>here</a>, including a lengthy quote from an animal physiology text.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 30th, 2006, 10:06 pm

Hi Bill, Here's a link showing "adequate gas exchange using small tidal volumes was graphically illustrated as early as 1915." <a href='http://www.bunl.com/howhfjv.html' target='_blank'>http://www.bunl.com/howhfjv.html</a> I'm not suggesting people pant 200 times a minute and, as you might know, am opposed to overbreathing, hyperventilation, and all the ills that result. The important thing in this regard, is to focus on breathing out, and not trying to breathe in any more oxygen, as the breathing in takes care of itself. The danger would be trying to breathe in too much, which would upset the balance of pH. However, as stated in prior messages, sufficient heart and breathing rates are necessary during exercise to facilitate the require increases in uptake of oxygen and release of carbon dioxide by the lungs. I've been rowing with one breath per stroke for quite awhile now, am realizing that was not at all sufficient, and that two breaths per stroke would be better. I was even taking three at times and/or free breathing during my rowing this morning and this worked well too.

[old] osteomark · Post by **[old] osteomark** » February 3rd, 2006, 2:07 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 29 2006, 08:34 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Alissa @ Jan 12 2006, 08:28 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>supports a conclusion that ragged, panting arrhythmic breathing (which is what the researcher had observed in rowers in competition—I wonder where and at what level?) is inefficient physiologically, and that it should be replaced with deep inhalations and prolonged, strong exhalations. </td></tr></table> I agree that his conclusions are way off. First he says to avoid panting, and then he says to replace that with deep inhalations. Well panting and deep inhalations both result in the over breathing of oxygen. As long as the blood is 99+% saturated with oxygen, it's not possible to get any higher than that. The important thing is to keep the balance of co2 and o2, which is "not" done by either panting nor deep inhalations but, rather, focusing on the exhalation and letting inhalation take care of itself. </td></tr></table>

[old] osteomark · Post by **[old] osteomark** » February 3rd, 2006, 2:16 pm

I really cann't inhale on the catch my stomach and lungs can't fill against my contracted thigh. I watch the forsome oarsman and it dawned on me that their chest and stomach don't touch their thighs. I cann't tell how they are breathing since they are breathing through their noses so you cann't tell if they are inhaling or exhaling on the catch and they don't have the puffed cheeks on drive or recovery. The other thing is I may be going too far forward on the catch. But it looks like the picture in the book and machine. I guess I could just be too fat though. I'm 5'9" and 187# so Im not that fat. So I'm confused. Mark

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » February 3rd, 2006, 2:21 pm

Many rowers and myself, exhale at the catch. You can also exhale at the end of the drive or beginning of recovery, giving you two breaths per stroke. I'm now using one breath per stroke rowing steadily, two breaths rowing faster, and sometimes in between.

[old] MJPhilly · Post by **[old] MJPhilly** » February 3rd, 2006, 8:10 pm

John wrote on Jan 30th: "My rate while sleeping or at rest is 7 times a minute" How do you know what your rate is when you sleep? I've heard of counting sheep to fall asleep but once you are asleep how can you count anything, let alone how many times you breathe per minute?

[old] ljwagner · Post by **[old] ljwagner** » February 14th, 2006, 9:11 pm

John: "Now if panting is so bad, then why do dogs do it, and horses etc???" Dogs can't sweat. They pant instead to cool themselves. We sweat. We also pant when out of breath, but usually when standing/sitting around when we should be moving more to force us to breath more deeply to recover. That has been studied, breathing on recovery after an event, and is in the older copy of McArdle's Exercise Physiology book. Erging at all but the easiest paces, I breathe relaxed but somewhat deeply. At max paces, of any duration, I exhale powerfully from catch to finish. At a low stroke rate, I have time for a small inhale and exhale at the finish, followed by a 2nd bigger inhale moving up the slide. Rowing at a high rate, I think its one and one. Give yourself a balloon test. Take a balloon, and see how full you can inflate it on one breath. Even do it a few times consecutively. Incidentally, with shoulders back, the way I row, without any hunch, I find I can get about 50% more air in the balloon.