Split Table Wrong in ErgData, Right on PM5 History

[cjbroom]

Hi all, I am new to the forum, and just purchased a RowErg for my home. I received the machine yesterday, set it up last night, and did my first row this morning (which was an approximately 30 minute “Just Row” session).

For context and background, I have previous experience using the RowErg at a physical therapy gym, and I have always used them when a machine has been available at other gyms I’ve visited, so I am somewhat familiar with the PM5 from using them in these situations. However, I have never used the ErgData app to track and sync workouts until now.

I noticed an issue in my ErgData logbook with the split table, and I’m not sure what is going on. For what it’s worth, I’m pretty technologically savvy (I am a cybersecurity consultant), and I have read the PM5 quick start guide, which is not of much help. I have also searched these forums and haven’t come up with much, so I’m hoping someone might be able to help me figure out what is going on.

On the PM5 unit’s history, the splits seem to show correctly (see picture):



On the ErgData app’s logbook, the split table contains rows that, to me, contain obvious bad data… incredibly high split distances, wattage numbers, and calories per hour numbers, with incredibly low pace times and zero strokes per minute. Adding to the confusion, the calorie amounts are also seemingly way too high in the rows of the ErgData’s split table that seem to contain good data in all other respects (see picture):



I am hoping a more experienced user might be able to help me sort what is going on here.

ErgData iOS app version: 2.2.3(1)
PM5 Firmware version: 257
PM5 Hardware version: 300
PM5 Datecode: 2702022

Thank you in advance.

[Citroen]

Don't use "Just Row" for your workouts, you can't log those as a personal best on https://log.concept.com. Also they throw up strange anomalies when you log them.

Program your PM5 to do a 30 minute row and it will work as you expect.

[Sakly]

That seems to be an issue only on ios. Never saw these issues on android and also using just row from time to time (today as well), but other issues pop up on android
So you go well with the top from Citroen

Another thing: looking at your stats from the PM5, you probably are way off of a good stroke technique, as rate 28 for 2:30 splits is very(!) high. I think it would make more sense to go deeper into that thing, as it helps you much more to get a good workout on the rower, than seeing proper split data.

[cjbroom]

Today I did another “Just Row” workout (~30 mins) and it recorded fine. Perhaps it’s an anomaly?

Screenshots:





Based on feedback here, I am going to look into programming a 30 minute row into the PM5.

[cjbroom]

Another thing: looking at your stats from the PM5, you probably are way off of a good stroke technique, as rate 28 for 2:30 splits is very(!) high.

You’ll have to forgive my ignorance, as I’m new to the data side of all of this. I usually just get on a rower and row.

I have no idea what you mean when you say that 28 strokes per minute for 2:30 splits is very high.

Are you saying that at 28 strokes per minute, my split time should be lower? Does this mean I am not generating enough power with each stroke?

[Sakly]

Are you saying that at 28 strokes per minute, my split time should be lower? Does this mean I am not generating enough power with each stroke?

Exactly this ^^

See your data of last proper recording: 119W average with 28 strokes you get an SPI (metric for power applied in a single stroke) of 119/28=4,25. For a 20 spm steady state the wattage "should" be around 2W/kg bodyweight for a relative fit person.
For me, 78kg, this would be ~160W at rate 20 what translates to an SPI of ~8.
If you get fitter and stronger and more efficient the SPI will raise as well.

[Ombrax]

CJ, don't worry if you aren't yet at 2W / kg. Personally I think that's a pretty optimistic number for relative newcomers.
Think of it as a goal for the future, not somewhere you need to be right now.

1) Make sure that your technique is pretty good. (the C2 web site has lots of information and videos on this)

2) For basic workouts you probably want your stroke rate to be down around 20-22 spm. 28 is a bit high unless you're going for a PB.

3) Put in the effort, and you will improve over time.

Good Luck

[joshadel]

I purchased a new RowErg about a month ago and the data on ErgData matched the PM5 up until yesterday. Then I started seeing the identical behavior to you -- data looks fine on the PM5, but ErgData (and thus the online logbook) has the summary for the workout for the workout correct, but the interval or split data is displaying garbage numbers. Something seems to have broken. I'm also on iOS with the latest app version and RowErg firmware (neither of which changed yesterday). I've contacted Concept2 and am awaiting a reply. I'll let you know if I hear anything about fixes.

[Sakly]

CJ, don't worry if you aren't yet at 2W / kg. Personally I think that's a pretty optimistic number for relative newcomers.

For a 20 spm steady state the wattage "should" be around 2W/kg bodyweight for a relative fit person.

This implies that you already gained fitness/strength through other sports and only need to align technique. If you are an absolute beginner (in sports at all), than you are right. Nobody will pull 2W/kg as an absolute beginner. But in this case one is not "relative fit".

[cjbroom]

This implies that you already gained fitness/strength through other sports and only need to align technique. If you are an absolute beginner (in sports at all), than you are right. Nobody will pull 2W/kg as an absolute beginner. But in this case one is not "relative fit".

I think context is important. I’d guess target performance is all relative, and changes with age as well. I’m 37 and, in the last few years, my participation in all sport (which is normally skiing, mountain biking, cycling, hiking) has drastically declined in the last 2-3 years due to my schedule getting exponentially getting busier trying to achieve some professional and life goals, hence why I bought a rower in the first place… to make it easy to get a workout in every day. I personally don’t consider myself “fit” right now, relative to where my fitness level has been in the past.

Thanks for the explanation about power generation and SPI. I will keep the 2W/kg in mind as a goal to work toward. I’m currently around 212-215 lbs (at 6’2” height), so I have some work to do to get to 2W / kg.

What is the consensus on stroke rate? Everything I have read says to target a stroke per minute rate between 25 and 30. To me, the 28 spm range feels natural. I don’t feel like I’m overexerting myself, but I feel like I’m still getting a good workout in.

[Sakly]

All fine, I only wanted to point out that this metric is a "go for" when fit. If not, you have to work towards it, so you have the right mindset
Stroke rate depends really on what you want to achieve with the session. For steady state rows to target aerobic base and stroke technique, I would recommend 20+-2. Higher rates 25+-2 are useful for harder aerobic threshold sessions, around 30 are only used for all out time try attempts. This is all relative, there are outliers, which work at different rates. Generally a strength related person would rate lower with more powerful strokes, a cardio related person would taste higher with less power.

[cjbroom]

All fine, I only wanted to point out that this metric is a "go for" when fit. If not, you have to work towards it, so you have the right mindset
Stroke rate depends really on what you want to achieve with the session. For steady state rows to target aerobic base and stroke technique, I would recommend 20+-2. Higher rates 25+-2 are useful for harder aerobic threshold sessions, around 30 are only used for all out time try attempts. This is all relative, there are outliers, which work at different rates. Generally a strength related person would rate lower with more powerful strokes, a cardio related person would taste higher with less power.

Thank you for the insight!

[jamesg]

I’m currently around 212-215 lbs (at 6’2” height), so I have some work to do to get to 2W / kg

For the Watt/kg metric you can use an ideal weight, which at 6'2 using BMI=23 is about 80kg (unless you are very muscular). So 2W/kg = 160W.

This is a power level to use in low rate training (18-20) for technique and endurance.

What's needed is a long hard stroke, using the legs, gauged by Watts/Rating = Work. The know-how is here:

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos