Need advise on how to proceed

[jrkob]

Ottimo lavoro !

Iain challenged you and you discovered you can do more than you think.
Happened to me too, be careful it's a trap and it's addictive !!!

[Dom82]

Thanks
For a newbie it's really hard to figure out what you are capable of and to correctly pace sessions. Even during the workout, despite feeling quite good, I had a voice inside my head telling me that I was going too fast and I would blow up in the last interval...

[p_b82]

I tried 4x500 with 2' rest and the results were better than I expected:

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
7:57.1	2,000m	1:59.2	206	1009	24	169
2:02.4	500m	2:02.4	191	956	23	158
2:02.1	500m	2:02.1	192	961	22	165
2:00.0	500m	2:00.0	203	997	24	172
1:52.6	500m	1:52.6	245	1143	29	183
r66m					

I would have never expected to be able to keep the same W/SPM from my 22-24 rate comfort zone to 29.

Congrats!

The one thing that I found the most difficult, was finding my mental limit, it's so easy to say "I can't do this because......" it's an entirely different thing going "I will continue this because....."

Also there's nothing wrong with setting yourself a target and going to failure - I often exceeded what I thought was possible sometimes by a few strokes, others by 1000's of meters - but that can be tricky if there's not a target to aim for, as the chimp tells us we should quit.

Tbh the only reason I took on the HM (twice) was to prove to myself I could do it - not fast - but for me it's a big achievement.

[Dangerscouse]

I would have never expected to be able to keep the same W/SPM from my 22-24 rate comfort zone to 29.

Well done Dom. Sometimes you just need someone else to suggest something to you to make you realise it's possible.

[iain]

Well done, I think that the rate will take care of itself if you try and do the first 3 at the average pace!

[Dom82]

Thanks guys.
Now my question is about how to proceed during the summer. Excluding weeks on vacations, on other weeks the number of days I'll have available for rowing will be variable. Some weeks I may have only 2 rowing days (Sat and Sun), some other weeks I may get up to 4.

The previous workout structure (5x 1min on/off session + 30min SS) was manageable also on consecutive days.
4x500 + 30min SS would clearly more demanding, in particular on consecutive days.

I was thinking I could do something like:
Day 1: 4x500 + 30min SS
Day 2: 30/45min SS
(Opt) Day 3: 4x500 + 30min SS
(Opt) Day 4: 30/45min SS, or maybe long intervals like 3 x 2000m / 4min rest at 3/4s faster than SS.

I really liked the structure of the BPP and since September I'll get back to it, but now it wouldn't make much sense, not being able to workout 3 days on all weeks and having multiple weeks off.

[p_b82]

If you like the structure of the BPP - you can always just treat the next row as the "next day"; it won't be on a weekly basis, but it will be structured still.

A hard day then an easier day would be a practical way to go about things; and you can always mix up what those sessions look like depending on how you're responding to your sessions.

[Dom82]

Quick update: I'm back to my usual routine, after a summer during which (as expected) I had very little time to row. I decided to start again the BPP as I like its structure and the fact that it mixes different kinds of sessions.

For SS sessions, I decided to start with a 2:30 pace (3s faster than the pace I started with the previous time). Yesterday I had the first 5k session and it felt ok.

For short intervals, my last 6x500 (week 6 of the plan, which I did in May) was at 2:04.7 pace. Even though in the last few months I've seen some improvement there (in August I had a 4x500 2'r at 1:59 pace and a 4 x 1000 - 5'r at 2:03) I prefer to start on the conservative side and I think I'll target a 2:05 pace for the first 6x500 of the new plan.

For long intervals (2x10min, 3x2k and similar ones) I would like some advice: the first time I tried the plan, my target pace was a couple of seconds faster than SS but I think it was probably too easy. In August I had a 4x2k 5'r at 2:07 pace, but that was on max effort. I would stay somewhere in between, maybe 2:20?

Also, to keep myself motivated, I set as a goal to end the 2023/2024 season with a PB in all distances from 500m up to HM faster than the 65th percentile of my age/weight group. I know it doesn't look ambitious to try to be slower 65% of people, but it actually is, considered where I started in January.

[p_b82]

I can't comment on any of the bpp pacing, but I think the aim for those is incremental improvement, so I'm sure if you've set the pace too low you will be able to tweak it and adjust accordingly upwards. (or downwards if too optimistic)

WRT your target for this season just looking at the 30min currently that's ~700 folks so we're looking around 450th place, that currently looking like faster than:

Time: 30:00.0
Distance: 7,000m
Pace: 2:08.5

I've only done the one "decent" r20 attempt at 30min so far... even rating up I've a fair way to go I think!

Distance Time Pace Percentile
6,763m 30:00.0 2:13.0 25th

I did a 20min row yesterday and due to putting in a max effort final 2 mins saw my HR spike from low 180's to 191 - a new max - but it has just highlighted I've still got a lot of work to do to beat that 7k mark myself! (which I'm targeting for this season as well)

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
20:00.0 4,532m 2:12.3 151 819 18 174
4:00.0 903m 2:12.8 149 813 19 156
8:00.0 902m 2:13.0 149 811 17 171
12:00.0 897m 2:13.7 146 803 18 175
16:00.0 892m 2:14.5 144 794 19 180
20:00.0 939m 2:07.7 168 877 19 191

[Dom82]

Hi Peter,
these are the targets I have found (if I remind correctly, they are based on rankings from last season).

Code: Select all

	Time	Pace
500m	1:44.9	1:44.9
1000m	3:47.6	1:53.8
2000m	8:01.1	2:00.2
5000m	21:05.3	2:06.5
6000m	25:44.0	2:08.6
10000m	43:24.5	2:10.2
HM	1:34:50	2:14.8

I guess the most difficult targets to achieve will be the short pieces (I can keep a 1:45 pace for maybe a few seconds...) and the longer ones (I never rowed longer than 12k and all my long sessions were SS at 2:30 / 2:35 pace...). But April 2024 is still far so we have time to improve

As for your 30min attempt, I guess that if you let SR go to maybe 22-23 you could get closer to 7000

[p_b82]

ah ok - yeah this years current percentiles are a little quicker it appears! (not as many people have put in times yet I expect).

For my PB's for this year, I'll have to have another crack at them after I've finished the R20 challenge I've set myself; as you say still got a good chunk of the year to go to beat things with an open rate.

I'm hoping that the work I'm doing now will translate to a better Wmin value at higher rates than I had before though.

I set everything above 2k at 5->5.5Wmin with the rate changed to define the pace - but it was always set at what I had as a max sustainable Hr for the piece (~170-175bpm until the last ~5 mins and then 185+ for the last 2 mins).

I didn't try anything below 2k, as I just wasn't training those efforts at all, and I was worried I'd injure myself with poor form trying to eke out more power - I'm a lot less worried about that now, but they're not on my current radar either.

[Rowan McSheen]

For long intervals (2x10min, 3x2k and similar ones) I would like some advice: the first time I tried the plan, my target pace was a couple of seconds faster than SS but I think it was probably too easy. In August I had a 4x2k 5'r at 2:07 pace, but that was on max effort. I would stay somewhere in between, maybe 2:20?

My take on the BPP is that Pete assumes that the beginners are newcomers to the erg but already conditioned athletes. He therefore expects us to be doing the distance pieces rather more energetically than we are probably doing them (I do each week's at UT2 and UT1 pace, strictly to hrm). So the pacing advice he gives for the 1500m and 2000m fits, but not for us.

On my current outing on the BPP in week 1 my target on the 2 x 10 mins session was the midpoint between the pace of the 500m reps and my UT2 pace. Same for the 1500m and 2000m sessions. I'm now on week 9 and this seems about right for me so far.

[Dom82]

Thanks Rowan. I agree with all you said.
For me, the midpoint between the pace of the 500m reps and SS pace is around 2:18, so pretty close to the 2:20 I had in my mind. I think I'll start with that and adjust it during the weeks if needed.