How to avoid bursitis with rowing?

[iain]

I definitely feel like I use the arms too much, which is what makes me tense and also probably what puts excessive stain on the shoulders. I'll try what you suggest when I can row again and it's probably a good idea to start off on a much lower DF while I get the technique right.

Lowering the DF helps in that it will require a more explosive stroke to generate "normal" paces. However it also allows rowing with bent arms easier as the stroke is lighter. It also encourages rushing the slide as you go up the slide faster and the hands come in faster, a continuous movement is more readily transferred into a faster slide to the catch, so more attention is required to slow this to recover fully for a powerful stroke (as well as the tendency to compensate for a weaker stroke with a higher rating).

There is a case at least as an exercise to try a high DF to learn to do the leg drive with straight arms.

- IAin

[robhely]

Lowering the DF helps in that it will require a more explosive stroke to generate "normal" paces. However it also allows rowing with bent arms easier as the stroke is lighter. It also encourages rushing the slide as you go up the slide faster and the hands come in faster, a continuous movement is more readily transferred into a faster slide to the catch, so more attention is required to slow this to recover fully for a powerful stroke (as well as the tendency to compensate for a weaker stroke with a higher rating).

There is a case at least as an exercise to try a high DF to learn to do the leg drive with straight arms.

Interesting, that makes sense. I had an experimental return to the erg last night to test the waters and tried 5 minutes with DF at 110 (down from 125), experimenting with the tips I've received. I see what you mean about the explosive stroke, my splits, at an easy pace, were about 20 seconds slower than with the higher DF. I could get them up to 'normal', but only by upping the rate or really pushing off much harder than usual.

I focussed on the straight arms thing and the light grip. The light grip did feel good and encouraged less work with the arms. Contracting the triceps and keeping the arms straight for as long as possible felt good too, but then again anything would feel good and easy at a lower DF!

I'm still unsure about the "dip" of the arms on the return. Some have said that this is from OTW technique, where obviously the oars have to come up out of the water, but I have noticed that all really good rowers on Youtube seem to do this on the erg and when teaching technique. You can even see it here on the C2 example:

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... -intensity

I find that if I don't dip my arms on the return, it feels like I'm experiencing more fatigue on the forearms by holding my arms so high up on the entire return. Is the "dip" generally considered good practice?

With the video above, would you say the rower has the kind of entirely straight arms I am aiming for? When I look at my video and compare it, it's actually hard to tell the difference.

If I get the offical go-ahead from my physio and can row again, I'll post another video of my attempt at better form. I really want to get this right before ramping up again.

I think I'll also try what someone suggested and tie a rope around the rail to stop the slide going too far forward and my shins going past vertical. This was a bad habit I picked up way back that I still slip back into when I'm focussing on other things.

[Sakly]

I generally find that all the technical aspects can be learned better at a higher drag, as it is much easier to get a good connection to the rower. You don't need to be so fast to catch up with the spinning flywheel and can focus on basic things. When they are "logged in" you can decrease the drag as you get fitter and faster, but you don't need to. Drag is very individual and can be 135 or 115 - it does not really matter. I started at 135 and now my typical drag is 120 or sometimes less.

The rower in the video also has no straight arms at the catch, they are already under tension and a little bit bend. This must not be a problem, if they are strong and used to it, but it is easier to have them fully straight, when applying force with the legs, as they are much stronger.
The dip in the return happens naturally for me. I have to focus on it, if I want to have a straight line with the handle.

[JaapvanE]

I generally find that all the technical aspects can be learned better at a higher drag, as it is much easier to get a good connection to the rower. You don't need to be so fast to catch up with the spinning flywheel and can focus on basic things.

I agree the catch is much easier, but in my experience it also puts a lot of strain on the arms when technique isn't perfected yet. So the issue of breaking the arms early may result in a lot of stress on elbows and shoulders, where the OP is experiencing an injury. That is why my physio recommended to use a low drag when I tore my biceps, which prevents overstressing the injury and allows a slow buildup to more powerful strokes by increasing the drag.

[Sakly]

I generally find that all the technical aspects can be learned better at a higher drag, as it is much easier to get a good connection to the rower. You don't need to be so fast to catch up with the spinning flywheel and can focus on basic things.

I agree the catch is much easier, but in my experience it also puts a lot of strain on the arms when technique isn't perfected yet. So the issue of breaking the arms early may result in a lot of stress on elbows and shoulders, where the OP is experiencing an injury. That is why my physio recommended to use a low drag when I tore my biceps, which prevents overstressing the injury and allows a slow buildup to more powerful strokes by increasing the drag.

The problem has several aspects.
If you have no quick leg drive and matching hip hinge, then you cannot create huge amounts of force to put a lot of strain on the other parts of the force chain, e. g. arms. This is probably the case for splits ~2:20 or even slower. This is the reason why the technical aspect of straight arms is typically not recognized, as they are able to transfer this small amount of force anyway. Due to high repetition you get the issues, but you have no idea why, as awareness is not there.
If you increase drag, it is much easier to feel the load and you are able to gain awareness of the load, even with a slow leg drive. This will better the technique and even with the higher load of the increased drag, the strain is less. After technique is in, you can drop drag again to work on quickness in the leg drive.

Talking about tore ligaments is a complete other story and needs other approaches to deal with.

[JaapvanE]

If you have no quick leg drive and matching hip hinge, then you cannot create huge amounts of force to put a lot of strain on the other parts of the force chain, e. g. arms.

That is what my physio considers an extremely good property of an exercise for somebody with an arm injury...

This is probably the case for splits ~2:20 or even slower.

Yep, been there. For over 9 months.

This is the reason why the technical aspect of straight arms is typically not recognized, as they are able to transfer this small amount of force anyway. Due to high repetition you get the issues, but you have no idea why, as awareness is not there.

I focused on breaking the arms as late as possible. As there is no speed or fatigue to speak of, you got a lot of mind-space to focus on the movement. I wasn't too happy in the process, but I like the end result.

If you increase drag, it is much easier to feel the load and you are able to gain awareness of the load, even with a slow leg drive. This will better the technique and even with the higher load of the increased drag, the strain is less. After technique is in, you can drop drag again to work on quickness in the leg drive.

It is a fair point. My worry is that people slam into a too slow flywheel, and that the catch actually becomes too heavy for their arms. But I'm only the patient, not the doctor....

[Sakly]

If you increase drag, it is much easier to feel the load and you are able to gain awareness of the load, even with a slow leg drive. This will better the technique and even with the higher load of the increased drag, the strain is less. After technique is in, you can drop drag again to work on quickness in the leg drive.

It is a fair point. My worry is that people slam into a too slow flywheel, and that the catch actually becomes too heavy for their arms. But I'm only the patient, not the doctor....

I see the same problem in the gym. There are exercises, which need a minimum load to be learned and executed well, best example is a deadlift. Every time I see a trainer giving introduction to it with an empty barbell...I am not sure if the job was chosen wisely. Nearly no load, which is important to feel the initiation of movement and bracing, if barbell not supported no proper start position, biomechanics get worse.
Same applies to the rower of you do not feel the catch. If you have no quick drive, you won't feel the catch at a drag of 90. Probably even not at 110 or 120. And if you have slow legs, you will not slam into the catch, as you are slow
It gets a problem when you have quick legs and strength, no body awareness, don't understand the catch, but apply all force you have to give. In this case you could really hurt yourself. To be honest, have seen such combination very rarely.

[robhely]

I generally find that all the technical aspects can be learned better at a higher drag, as it is much easier to get a good connection to the rower. You don't need to be so fast to catch up with the spinning flywheel and can focus on basic things. When they are "logged in" you can decrease the drag as you get fitter and faster, but you don't need to. Drag is very individual and can be 135 or 115 - it does not really matter. I started at 135 and now my typical drag is 120 or sometimes less.

The rower in the video also has no straight arms at the catch, they are already under tension and a little bit bend. This must not be a problem, if they are strong and used to it, but it is easier to have them fully straight, when applying force with the legs, as they are much stronger.
The dip in the return happens naturally for me. I have to focus on it, if I want to have a straight line with the handle.

This makes sense to me, I recall when I first got on the C2 a couple of months ago, the first thing I really struggled with was getting that connection with the erg - especially at the catch. At low DFs I found myself racing up the catch to try and get enough resistance to use the legs at all... With a higher DF, it seems easier to get that really slow smooth stroke, which is better for focussing on technique issues, in my case straight arms and light grip.

I'm glad you noticed that the rower in the video was bending their arms a little bit soon after the catch as well, this really highlights the limitations of learning by imitation!

Sadly I might be looking at many months of recovery with no riding or rowing, I'll get an MRI to confirm but I think the bursitis was a mis-diagnosis. I think the issue is a torn rotator cuff, which may well need surgery If this is the case I will continue with the spin bike, which is nowhere near as much fun as the erg. I'll probably end up with tree trunk legs and the upper body tone of a 9 year old...

[Sakly]

Sadly I might be looking at many months of recovery with no riding or rowing, I'll get an MRI to confirm but I think the bursitis was a mis-diagnosis. I think the issue is a torn rotator cuff, which may well need surgery If this is the case I will continue with the spin bike, which is nowhere near as much fun as the erg. I'll probably end up with tree trunk legs and the upper body tone of a 9 year old...

Oh, that's no good news. I really hope that this will not validate, but any valid diagnosis helps, as you know how to deal with it properly.
And better it can be sorted out, but you will be able to get back in full health. It does not help to stay on the rower for another few month with less training effect, because you cannot drive with full force. If your muscles work well again, it's no problem to build them up to where they were and even stronger.

[JaapvanE]

Sadly I might be looking at many months of recovery with no riding or rowing, I'll get an MRI to confirm but I think the bursitis was a mis-diagnosis. I think the issue is a torn rotator cuff, which may well need surgery

Sorry to hear that. I hope you recover soon...

[Dangerscouse]

Sadly I might be looking at many months of recovery with no riding or rowing, I'll get an MRI to confirm but I think the bursitis was a mis-diagnosis. I think the issue is a torn rotator cuff, which may well need surgery If this is the case I will continue with the spin bike, which is nowhere near as much fun as the erg. I'll probably end up with tree trunk legs and the upper body tone of a 9 year old...

Sorry to read this Rob, and I hope you can get an operation sorted out quickly if that is what's needed.

[p_b82]

Hope the scan gives you a conclusive diagnosis whichever way that falls, and you can get back on the road to proper recovery.

[Ante]

Sadly I might be looking at many months of recovery with no riding or rowing, I'll get an MRI to confirm but I think the bursitis was a mis-diagnosis. I think the issue is a torn rotator cuff, which may well need surgery

Bad news, Rob. Cycling just isn’t as much fun as rowing. (Being Dutch, I know.)
Good luck in recovering.

Best regards,
Ante

[robhely]

The MRI showed that the issue is Adhesive Capsulitis (frozen shoulder), which is a huge relief as I won't need an operation and apparently the best rehab is to keep the shoulder moving, so rowing is good for it! It's also good to know that both my doctor and physiotherapist concluded that this injury had nothing to do with rowing, it's just one of those unlucky afflictions that people get sometimes when they get older.

It's amazing how much fitness I've lost in just 3 weeks, before I stopped rowing I was able to easily pull 2:05s at UT2 for 30 - 40 minutes, when I started back I was more like 2:15 - 2:20.

I've been working on technique, mainly focussing on:

1. a more relaxed upper body, with straighter arms for longer
2. looser grip on the handle, trying to keep it away from the palms and in between the first 2 joints of the fingers

https://youtu.be/SzxbOKmnuGs

One of the things that happened with the different grip was that I got a blister on my finger, which is the first time that's ever happened. It does feel strange using the fingers more like 'hooks' and not fully gripping the handle.

I do think I need to be bending the hips forward a bit more, but my lower back flexibility isn't great, which is a limiting factor. I can get further forward, but it feel like I'm hunching too much and lunging at the catch.

Anyway, it feels great to be back on the erg and knowing that rowing is good for rehab and definitely not causing damage.

[Dangerscouse]

One of the things that happened with the different grip was that I got a blister on my finger, which is the first time that's ever happened. It does feel strange using the fingers more like 'hooks' and not fully gripping the handle.

That's good news.

Your hands will toughen up over time, but be careful when you go on holiday as I find that suncream is terrible for softening the callouses and giving you blisters all over again. I'm currently having that issue.