Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[robhely]

BPP W4S1 6.5km 2:08

HR was better controlled today...nothing over 149

27:37.7 6,500m 2:07.5 169 880 19 143
5:29.7 1,300m 2:06.8 172 890 20 138
5:31.5 1,300m 2:07.5 169 881 20 142
5:31.7 1,300m 2:07.5 169 880 20 144
5:31.9 1,300m 2:07.6 168 879 20 147
5:32.9 1,300m 2:08.0 167 873 20 148

Just wondering what your criteria for 2:07 splits is for the BPP? I've just started week 7 and my pace is slower than yours (similar age group), but my heart rate is also lower. I was aiming for splits around 20 seconds slower than my 5000m pace, which puts me around 2:15. This is really easy for me, my heart rate is mostly around 125 - 135. Last week for the 6500m I tried a pace of 2:10 and that was also easy, heart rate didn't even really change much.

I do wish the BPP was a bit more specific about how hard we should be working on the solid state rows.

The general advice I received was 5000m + 20, but go pretty hard on the intervals, which I have been. The 2 x 2000m has been my hardest row yet, but I think that's because I went out too hard at the start and almost killed myself trying to maintain that pace across both intervals...

[Dangerscouse]

I do wish the BPP was a bit more specific about how hard we should be working on the solid state rows.

The general advice I received was 5000m + 20, but go pretty hard on the intervals, which I have been. The 2 x 2000m has been my hardest row yet, but I think that's because I went out too hard at the start and almost killed myself trying to maintain that pace across both intervals...

It's really hard to stipulate a steady pace as we're all different, but personally I'd be looking at the 5k + 20 if i was you, but I'd also not be afraid to go + 18 or + 25 if it felt intuitively right.

It all depends on how you're recovering as to what is advisable, but always frame the steady sessions as a means to an end ie getting the most out of of the intervals.

Steady pace can all too easily be affected by ego which isn't always a bad thing, but it's got to be managed properly. There's no point in going 2k + 15 for your steady pace only for it to impact your intervals pace.

I always like to remind myself that you need to do what you should, not what you could. That can sometimes be 5k + 30 for me

[winniewinser]

BPP W4S1 6.5km 2:08

HR was better controlled today...nothing over 149

27:37.7 6,500m 2:07.5 169 880 19 143
5:29.7 1,300m 2:06.8 172 890 20 138
5:31.5 1,300m 2:07.5 169 881 20 142
5:31.7 1,300m 2:07.5 169 880 20 144
5:31.9 1,300m 2:07.6 168 879 20 147
5:32.9 1,300m 2:08.0 167 873 20 148

Just wondering what your criteria for 2:07 splits is for the BPP? I've just started week 7 and my pace is slower than yours (similar age group), but my heart rate is also lower. I was aiming for splits around 20 seconds slower than my 5000m pace, which puts me around 2:15. This is really easy for me, my heart rate is mostly around 125 - 135. Last week for the 6500m I tried a pace of 2:10 and that was also easy, heart rate didn't even really change much.

I do wish the BPP was a bit more specific about how hard we should be working on the solid state rows.

The general advice I received was 5000m + 20, but go pretty hard on the intervals, which I have been. The 2 x 2000m has been my hardest row yet, but I think that's because I went out too hard at the start and almost killed myself trying to maintain that pace across both intervals...

Hi, more trial and error based on current fitness. I wanted it fast enough to be building some fitness but slow enough for my breathing to be fairly calm (where I could hold a conversation if needed).

Last time I did the plan I had already been hitting 10km+ and remember going at these piece too hard really. So this time I wanted something more sensible as my fitness level is nowhere near what it was.

[Dom82]

Week 5 completed:


Only 3 sessions, as I couldn't find the time for the optional ones (I also added one gym workout this week).
First SS session felt quite easy and HR kept quite low throughout the session.

For the intervals, I rowed at 2.08 in the first 3 intervals and managed to get to 2.06.4 in the last one.


For the last SS session, I tried something different: I wanted to increase stroke efficiency / focus on technique, keeping pace constant and making every stroke as hard as possible. The numbers are quite clear: stroke efficiency (in terms of both W/SR and m/strokes) increased by 30%, but the session was really too hard, HR went crazy and in the second half of the session I couldn't even maintain the target pace. Maybe that morning I hadn't fully recovered from the intervals session I had the evening before, but anyway I don't think I will go do this really low SPM road again. Today I rowed the first 7.5k of week 6 at 14.7 SPM and felt completely different.

[winniewinser]

Week 5 completed:


Only 3 sessions, as I couldn't find the time for the optional ones (I also added one gym workout this week).
First SS session felt quite easy and HR kept quite low throughout the session.

For the intervals, I rowed at 2.08 in the first 3 intervals and managed to get to 2.06.4 in the last one.


For the last SS session, I tried something different: I wanted to increase stroke efficiency / focus on technique, keeping pace constant and making every stroke as hard as possible. The numbers are quite clear: stroke efficiency (in terms of both W/SR and m/strokes) increased by 30%, but the session was really too hard, HR went crazy and in the second half of the session I couldn't even maintain the target pace. Maybe that morning I hadn't fully recovered from the intervals session I had the evening before, but anyway I don't think I will go do this really low SPM road again. Today I rowed the first 7.5k of week 6 at 14.7 SPM and felt completely different.

That is a VERY low SR....no wonder it felt tough if you were aiming for the same SS pace as previous longer sessions. I think 18 would be as low as I'd go for these and would probably drop pace to keep a similar SPI.

Keep it up though....the plan will produce results.

[Dom82]

That is a VERY low SR....no wonder it felt tough if you were aiming for the same SS pace as previous longer sessions. I think 18 would be as low as I'd go for these and would probably drop pace to keep a similar SPI.

Keep it up though....the plan will produce results.

I would have thought that making a few strong shots would be as tough as making many weak ones. I couldn't have been more wrong...

[Dom82]

I completed the first two workouts of week 6.

With the 7500m I tried to still focus on technique, but get back towards my usual 15-16 SPM. As I said in my previous post, the session felt much more comfortable than the second 7k of last week.


With the 3x2000, I increased a bit the SPM to get the target pace. Compared to the 2x2000 /4min rest @ 2:31 I had on week 3, max and avg HR decreased , despite the extra interval, the slightly faster pace and the better W/SR. Let's hope to be on the right track.

[iain]

DOM, may take some tiome, but I think you should be looking to lift your rating for the intervals. This does make them a greater strain on the CV, but ultimately most people do 2k at 28-36SPM so there is a lot to go for. Very low SPM at challenging pace is a strength workout. As someone who doesn't do weights I do workouts such as 12 x 30S at R24 (normal 30S intervals would be at 40SPM or so). The main purpose of teh BPP SS rows is to build endurance and allow the normal stroke to be refined, inevitably when you are going for maximum drive power it is all too easy to overextend the leanback &/or over compress, so probably not a great exercise to do more than occasionally.

Re the query on what is the right SS pace, that will vary a lot between people. When I was in my 30s, I could manage 2k + 15S for 10k SS when doing 6 sessions a week while being fully recovered for intervals. Now i only tend to do 4 sessions a week and am much less fit. I do 1hr+ on most SS, but at 2k + 23S typically, but sometimes back off to +25S. These sessions are billed as UT1, so you should have a good sweat up and they shouldn't be easy if following Pete's prescriptions Of course there is nothing sacred about how Pete intended them. many people believe more in UT2 sessions, so if that fits better with your training program and life, you are free to go significantly slower.

[Dom82]

DOM, may take some tiome, but I think you should be looking to lift your rating for the intervals. This does make them a greater strain on the CV, but ultimately most people do 2k at 28-36SPM so there is a lot to go for. Very low SPM at challenging pace is a strength workout. As someone who doesn't do weights I do workouts such as 12 x 30S at R24 (normal 30S intervals would be at 40SPM or so). The main purpose of teh BPP SS rows is to build endurance and allow the normal stroke to be refined, inevitably when you are going for maximum drive power it is all too easy to overextend the leanback &/or over compress, so probably not a great exercise to do more than occasionally.

Thanks for your feedback iain.
As for the super-low SPM, I don't think I will repeat that kind of workout in the future.
Currently, given my poor fitness level and my height, I find that low SPM (15-17 for SS and long intervals; 21-22 for short intervals) suits me better, but I know I need to increase my ratings in all kinds of sessions. I think that following the BPP might help: in the first weeks sessions increased in duration but at the same pace; in the following weeks I'll also have to go faster, so higher ratings will be a consequence.

Today I had session 6.3 (6500m). Here it is, compared to the same workout 3 days ago:

Today rating was higher. Yesterday I had a tough (for me) hym session so I probably compensated lack of power in legs with higher ratings...

Re the query on what is the right SS pace, that will vary a lot between people. When I was in my 30s, I could manage 2k + 15S for 10k SS when doing 6 sessions a week while being fully recovered for intervals. Now i only tend to do 4 sessions a week and am much less fit. I do 1hr+ on most SS, but at 2k + 23S typically, but sometimes back off to +25S. These sessions are billed as UT1, so you should have a good sweat up and they shouldn't be easy if following Pete's prescriptions Of course there is nothing sacred about how Pete intended them. many people believe more in UT2 sessions, so if that fits better with your training program and life, you are free to go significantly slower.

With SS I definitely have a good sweat up: I even need to dry the floor to keep my wife from kicking my a$$
Heart rate and fatigue feeling say that only the first minutes are in UT2. Most of the session is in UT1 and sometimes I probably finish in AT.

[winniewinser]

BPP W4S3 - 6.5km again...2:07-08...HR drifted a bit higher today which may have been due to the warmer room temperature (20c). Never felt hard work but just can't keep the HR down. Perhaps I'll ditch that metric for now.

27:36.1 6,500m 2:07.3 169 882 19 145
5:28.7 1,300m 2:06.4 173 896 19 135
5:31.4 1,300m 2:07.4 169 881 19 143
5:31.4 1,300m 2:07.4 169 881 20 146
5:32.2 1,300m 2:07.7 168 877 19 150
5:32.3 1,300m 2:07.8 168 876 19 151

[Dom82]

Session 6.4 (5000m) completed today.
Pete's Description: Aim to start this one at the same pace as the 7500m sessions this week, but once you get past half way try speeding up the pace by 1 second every time you feel able to.

So my plan was rowing the first 2500m at 2:33, and then going 1s faster every 250m (so going from 2:33 to 2:23).
These are the results:

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
25:07.8	5,000m	2:30.7	102	651	16	157
12:45.4	2,500m	2:33.0	98	635	16	154
1:15.9	250m	2:31.8	100	644	16	154
1:15.4	250m	2:30.8	102	651	17	154
1:15.6	250m	2:31.2	101	648	17	159
1:15.9	250m	2:31.8	100	644	17	159
1:15.1	250m	2:30.2	103	655	17	158
1:13.4	250m	2:26.8	111	680	17	161
1:13.0	250m	2:26.0	112	687	18	163
1:14.1	250m	2:28.2	108	670	18	163
1:11.9	250m	2:23.8	118	705	19	167
1:12.2	250m	2:24.4	116	700	20	167

I set up the workout with 11 intervals (the first one of 2500m and the following of 250m each), with zero rest between them. But I had an issue with serveral intervals (for example number 5, 6, 10 and 11), where the average pace on the monitor after the first stroke of the interval would be super slow (for example 3:30, despite pushing the same way as the last stroke of the previous interval).

Take for example the fith interval: how can avg pace be 2:31.8, when the slowest stroke was at 2:30?

I has similar issue in the past with intervals where I kept rowing during the pause: did anyone find similar issues?

Anyway, I felt good this morning, so after the 5k I decided to give a try at the ErgZone 1min @ max 20SPM challenge. I had 6 attempts with pace going from 2:06 on the first one to 2:00 on the 5th one. On the 6th one I've rowed at 1:58.5 but it was at 21SPM... Anyway it was nice trying something new and seeing I'm not the last one in my catategory's leaderboard

[Elizabeth]

Dom, the way that the first stroke of an interval is timed can have a huge impact on the pace the PM5 calculates for that interval. And with really short intervals like 250m, a slow first stroke (not based on pull but solely on timing) is hard to recover from. It can go the other way; I did rolling starts into an interval workout today where the first pull displayed a pace about 10 splits faster than I was actually going. This is why you can't rank intervals in the C2 rankings.

Way to go with the 1:00r20! I'm glad to see people are having fun with that one.

[Dom82]

Dom, the way that the first stroke of an interval is timed can have a huge impact on the pace the PM5 calculates for that interval. And with really short intervals like 250m, a slow first stroke (not based on pull but solely on timing) is hard to recover from. It can go the other way; I did rolling starts into an interval workout today where the first pull displayed a pace about 10 splits faster than I was actually going. This is why you can't rank intervals in the C2 rankings.

Way to go with the 1:00r20! I'm glad to see people are having fun with that one.

Thanks Elizabeth. What you described with intervals was exactly my experience today. Anyway, looking at csv data I saw something strange, so I'll probably open a thread in the Ergdata section.

1:00r20 are really fun: one of these days I'll definitely try to go under 2:00

[Dom82]

Week 6 Session 5 - 6 x 500m / 2min rest

The last 6x500 I did on week 3 was at 2:06.8, so I planned to start at 2:07 and push it harder in the last two intervals (being an optional session, it doesn't impact on next weeks target pace, so I though I could push it to the limit)

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
12:27.9	3,000m	2:04.6	181	921	21	176
2:07.1	500m	2:07.1	170	886	20	165
2:07.3	500m	2:07.3	170	883	20	170
2:07.1	500m	2:07.1	170	886	20	174
2:05.8	500m	2:05.8	176	905	21	176
2:02.9	500m	2:02.9	189	948	21	184
1:57.7	500m	1:57.7	215	1038	24	190

The last two intervals were hard (I even touched my new max HR at 191) but I'm quite satisfied with the overall result.
Next week with the 7x500 I'll aim at 2:06 / 2:07.

[Dangerscouse]

And with really short intervals like 250m, a slow first stroke (not based on pull but solely on timing) is hard to recover from. It can go the other way; I did rolling starts into an interval workout today where the first pull displayed a pace about 10 splits faster than I was actually going.

I'm sure I've seen an 11 min pace when I timed it wrong. Admittedly I don't wear my glasses when I row, so I might be wrong. I've also seen quite regularly a pace 10 splits faster than it should have been.