Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

[ericMX73]

Hello again to all of you inspiring endurance rowers! I'm so excited to do another FM the first week of May; and get another pin! My goal is to complete the FM in 3 hours or less. I have done several sub 1 hour 30 min HMs this year and they are relatively easy now. On Saturday I did a practice 2 hour row maintaining a 2:07 pace which I think is doable for a FM pace and finish at 3 hours. I'm able to slow down, row one handed, take a drink of water from plastic bottle and get back on it to finish each split at avg 2:07.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
2:00:00.0 28,334m 2:07.0 171 887 22 159
20:00.0 4,722m 2:07.0 171 887 22 147
40:00.0 4,722m 2:07.0 171 887 22 157
1:00:00.0 4,723m 2:07.0 171 887 22 159
1:20:00.0 4,722m 2:07.0 171 887 22 162
1:40:00.0 4,723m 2:07.0 171 887 22 164
2:00:00.0 4,722m 2:07.0 171 887 22 166

I found it easy to maintain 2:07 overall while also taking drinks of cold water every 20 minutes. My max HR is around 180 bpm.

A few things I am going to try for my second FM:
1. Begin hydrating 2 days before the FM challenge day
2. Take 2 Ibuprofens with 1/2 banana, 1 hour before starting the FM
3. wear a Breathe Right nasal strip for better air flow
4. Start FM earlier in the morning when the room is cold (60f/15c)
5. Aim a second fan at my back where a lot of perspiration occurs
6. Intake only water with added sodium/sugar during the FM (no solid food this time)

One thing I will NOT be doing this time is attempting to drink (suck) through a straw or drink (suck) from a bicycle water bottle. Once my heart rate goes above the 160 bpm range I found it difficult to extract water from such containers. This time will only be pouring water out of small 16oz plastic bottles with the caps removed.

[RWAGR]

2. Take 2 Ibuprofens with 1/2 banana, 1 hour before starting the FM

I took painkillers before and during my recent FM (one Tylenol 15 min before, one at 90 minutes). There are for sure two schools of thought on it so do your research. For me it helped hugely with my hamstring pain that I had been feeling in longer training rows. Whether that was the actual active drug or the placebo effect I don't know (or, frankly, care). One thing I will say though is that while there are conflicting views on whether to take painkillers before or during a long piece, even the "in favor" school maintains that the painkiller should be Acetaminophen (i.e. Tylenol in the US, Paracetamol in the UK). Everyone seems to agree that it should not be NSAID (i.e. Ibuprofen). Again, I'm not close to being an expert; my knowledge is solely Google, but the consensus on the type of painkiller does seem pretty clear.

Good luck!

[ericMX73]

the consensus on the type of painkiller does seem pretty clear.

Good luck!

Thanks! I will take Tylenol (acetaminophen) instead. I appreciate the info. My sit bones are going to need all the help they can get past 2.5 hrs.

[GlennUk]

FWIW, Surely the objective when experiencing pain is to find a solution to the 'injury' causing the pain?

I am not sure how many people take painkillers in anticipation when undertaking endurance sessions for any sport. It may be i am naïve on this front, but I never considered taking pain relief to resolve the issues i had with PITA, i worked on a long term solution to the issue.

Am i the odd one out in not taking pain relief?

[Sakly]

Am i the odd one out in not taking pain relief?

Definitely not.
I plan my first FM for next season (as this season it's too close to the end and it will not work), but I would never think of taking pain killers in expectation of getting pain. If some pain pops up, my body is not ready for it and I have to build up in some way.

[iain]

Me 3 over pain relief, personally my body is so full of endorphins that a paracetamol or 2 wouldn't have much effect, but maybe others have less natural pain relief. That said, I would expect little PITA for the first hour, so why take a pill before you start? I would have thought one an hour or so in would be the only one effective and then shouldn't interfere (as much) with endorphin build up. Re the 2 hours, Stu and others are better placed than me to comment and it differs for all of us, but I find >90% HR is a problem for anything much over an hour, so getting there in 1 hr 20 is a little early. 3hrs is 2:08, so I would personally sit on closer to this so that the slower pace and cooler environment will push this closer to 2hrs. I always find that going for "time in the bank" is a bad idea as it is easier to row with neg splits than fight to maintain the pace, but maybe you find the threshold is higher for you?

Re food, most people recommend some carbs in at least some of your drink during an FM. I use 1/3 orange juice with 10g Maltodextrose in half a litre flavoured with lime and a small amount of salt. Worked for 24hrs for me. I have never tried >30km without some sugar, but when i stupidly did an FM starting depleted I bonked and don't want to risk that again.

Hope it goes well.

- Iain

[Dangerscouse]

This is a mind dump of my thoughts.

I've never taken painkillers either. It's just never occurred to me as an option, and I'm not going to start now but that's just my opinion.

If you're starting early morning, and not having some form of breakfast beforehand I'd be careful of not having enough carbs. You might be fine, but you really don't want to bonk, as it's happened to me once when I was 82k into a 100k and it's not pleasant. No need for solid food, but I'd recommend energy gels (assuming that's not solid in your opinion) and diluted fruit juice with sugar and salt AND water in a separate bottle. My suspicion is that your mind will start to conspire against you when it gets rough if you don't have regular carbs. Your brain is incredibly carb hungry during stressful moments and will easily start convincing you that you can't do it.

HR is very subjective, so if you honestly think it's manageable I'm not going to argue. Personally I find 80-85% is ideal for me, and over 90% would be dangerous but my HR doesn't follow a standard pattern.

I do agree with Iain about the neg, or flat, splits. This is a far more energy efficient way of doing it, but some people, like Keith, seem to thrive doing positive splits, so you may be fine doing it either way.

What I found useful for my butt was using a cut up yoga mat in a pillow case after about 45-60 mins. Don't use it from the start as I did that once, and it gave me no relief.

Whatever you decide to do, best of luck and going sub three is a big milestone.

[RWAGR]

You guys are much fitter and much more expert than me. FWIW though, taking a painkiller before or during a long run is not as wacky an idea as you might think. Take me for example, my hammies really hurt for whatever reason during the prep rows. The painkiller fixed that with no adverse effects. Now, it’s a Tylenol (Paracetamol) not morphine so of course there was no risk that if something serious occurred I wouldn’t feel it. Anyway, I defer to you all but I did want to make the point that based on my amateur research taking a painkiller is not universally thought to be crazy.

[Dangerscouse]

You guys are much fitter and much more expert than me. FWIW though, taking a painkiller before or during a long run is not as wacky an idea as you might think. Take me for example, my hammies really hurt for whatever reason during the prep rows. The painkiller fixed that with no adverse effects. Now, it’s a Tylenol (Paracetamol) not morphine so of course there was no risk that if something serious occurred I wouldn’t feel it. Anyway, I defer to you all but I did want to make the point that based on my amateur research taking a painkiller is not universally thought to be crazy.

Don't get me wrong Rob, I've never done it but I'm always an advocate of doing whatever helps...as long as it's not PEDs

When you're doing a FM you need all the little crumbs of comfort you can grab imo

[RWAGR]

No Stu and your concern is totally valid. Maybe in my case it was unique re the hamstrings and I would have thought differently if, like Sakly says, I were training to force my body to be “ready”. I guess the point is just that it isn’t black and white, and OP needs to make his own call. Ultimately the main thing I really wanted to flag was the seemingly universal agreement that no one should take NSAID painkillers before or during exercise.

[DavidA]

FWIW, Surely the objective when experiencing pain is to find a solution to the 'injury' causing the pain?

I am not sure how many people take painkillers in anticipation when undertaking endurance sessions for any sport. It may be i am naïve on this front, but I never considered taking pain relief to resolve the issues i had with PITA, i worked on a long term solution to the issue.

Am i the odd one out in not taking pain relief?

I also have never taken pain relief ahead of time.

David

[GlennUk]

Re the 2 hours, Stu and others are better placed than me to comment and it differs for all of us, but I find >90% HR is a problem for anything much over an hour

FWIW, the Eddie Fletcher FM plan gives indicators for HRmax values when erging a FM, when i set my PB (3hrs 11mins) last year i averaged over the duration 88% HRmax.

In the 1st 2.5hours routinely exceeded 90% of HRmax with a peak of 93%. With about 30 mins to go, I had to slow down or stop, I could only managed work at a rate which kept my HR at c.85% of HRmax with a pace which was much lower than the final average of 2:16.x.

From this I conclude that if you have trained well, then you could use 90% for quite a long period of time in excess of an hour i would say, but probably not for the full duraiont of a FM.

Re pain killers, my view would be to resolve any issues which give rise to pain. PITAS can arise for a number of reasons, which include such things as posture, clothing, technique.

FWIW i now erg with only a Citius Remex pad which is not soft but does help posture. I used to get PITA with the pad as it moved very slightly over time (i.e. FM/100K), likely due to a natural imbalance between the left and right side of my body based on how the seat moved. Its now 'fixed' in position and since then have had no real issues even over FM durations.

I would suggest that if one is keen to undertake endurance events, then one should resolve any underlying issues that give rise to pain beyond anything other than that caused by general muscle fatigue. It may not be life changing, but it will sure make life and endurance events more 'enjoyable'. Enjoyable obvs being a matter of ones point of view!

[iain]

...I conclude that if you have trained well, then you could use 90% for quite a long period of time in excess of an hour i would say, but probably not for the full duraiont of a FM.

FWIW i now erg with only a Citius Remex pad which is not soft but does help posture. I used to get PITA with the pad as it moved very slightly over time (i.e. FM/100K), likely due to a natural imbalance between the left and right side of my body based on how the seat moved. Its now 'fixed' in position and since then have had no real issues even over FM durations.

I find I can maintain 90% for atleast 2hrs, but even slightly above and this reduces the time I can hold it significantly. Nothing magic abot 90% and I am sure that people vary.

I always get PITA after 2-2.5hrs, but again people vary. I suspect it is because my glutes harden and so the movement of my sit bones pushing down on my glutes is what causes the pain. Maybe enough training and I could lengthen the time before my glutes start to harden, but I don't think this is wholly avoidable on long rows. That said the pain is much less than leg pain on a 2k and so I can row through it!

[Sakly]

No experience with very long rows (yet), but during my last HM TT I went from 167 to 174, average 170. With a max of 185 this was ~90 to 94% of max for roughly 79mins. The last 5-6km I was fighting on muscular level, not cv, and HR did not really change overall.
Curious about FM and this stuff. Looking forward to get first experiences

[Dangerscouse]

I used to get PITA, after about one hour when I first started endurance training, but eventually it's got to a point where I don't get it at all, and it's been tested up to 85k (I had to HD on a 100k, due to hubris in my preparation)

I have no idea what happened so I can't give any advice other than it just disappeared for me, but it still happens in cinema seats!!