Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[RayOfSunshine]

BPP 24.3
30min – You should be experienced at using your judgement now, so pace this according to how you are feeling from the training volume so far this week.

10k "warm up" on new toy (BikeErg) followed by 30" on the SkiErg.



Only 2 sessions left!

[iain]

A quick presentation: I'm 41, 194cm (6' 4") tall for 91kgs (200lbs). After being sedentary for most (all? ) of my life, last January I bought a Concept2 rowerg.

I would like to get a more structured workout plan and I'm tempted to try the Beginner Pete Plan. Do you think it's too early to try that? If not, how should I approach the first 5k session? Should I target a constant pace time (for 5k, anything faster than 2:30 / 2:40 would be impossible for me at the moment) or a specific heart rate band (70% of MHR)?

It depends on your mental aptitude, personally I would go for it, I would ignore HR as this is a lagging indicator better suited to 30min+ and I believe that different people react differently so better used to compare sessions than to set a limit. That said, if you think you could manage 2:30 at a stretch, don't go faster than 2:40 for the first 2k. Keep rating slow (probably 16-18 initially) and concentrate on the quality of each aspect of your stroke in turn. Most people initially find that several "sharpenings" of the stroke each produce a few S/500m difference so you can make sure that you don't get sloppy by keeping the pace constant at constant SPM.

Best of luck

Iain

[mitchel674]

Hi everybody.
A quick presentation: I'm 41, 194cm (6' 4") tall for 91kgs (200lbs). After being sedentary for most (all? ) of my life, last January I bought a Concept2 rowerg.
Given that, as you can imagine, I'm completely unfit, I had a couple of lower back pain issues in the first few weeks. Now things seem to get better, maybe because of better technique or because of the stretching focused on lower back I do before and after workouts. I also avoind going faster than 20 SPM because, being quite tall and unfit, higher rates mean worse technique for me.

In the last couple of weeks I trained 3-4 times a week, following beginner workouts on youtube. In particular, in the last few days I'm following a 10minutes workout by trainingtall (mostly focused on drills and technique) and a 10 minutes one by DarkHorse (10 minutes at 20 SPM, intervaling 10 strokes at max power and 10 normal ones). So, excluding pauses, that's roughly 18 mins per day.
To give you an idea of how unfit I currently am, this is the chart of the 2nd workout (the one with 10 hard strokes and 10 normal), after which I am completely exausted:


I would like to get a more structured workout plan and I'm tempted to try the Beginner Pete Plan. Do you think it's too early to try that? If not, how should I approach the first 5k session? Should I target a constant pace time (for 5k, anything faster than 2:30 / 2:40 would be impossible for me at the moment) or a specific heart rate band (70% of MHR)?
Thanks

Welcome!

My benchmark for starting the BPP is the ability to comfortably row 5000m in one sitting without breaks. If you can do this at a rate of 18-24spm, you can begin the plan. My best advice is to focus on technique and avoid the temptation to go too hard on the early interval pieces. This can lead to injury and set overly challenging pace goals as the plan progresses.

Most important is to post here to keep yourself accountable if that motivates you.

[Dom82]

It does sound a little early, but if you look right after week 1, they have the following note:

Note: If even this volume of sessions looks too much, simply halve each session for your first time through the plan and begin with a 2500m row on Day 1, 3 x 500m on Day 2 and so on.

Do you know what your true MHR is? If not, I think I'd go by feel rather than some percentage of a formula MHR.

Thanks for your feedback.
I thought about halving the sessions, but I'm afraid it would be too light/boring, in particular in the first few weeks.
Right now, my usual session (excluding warmup and cooldown) includes about 1600m at low/medium intensity and 2200m at high intensity. So a 2500m session at low/medium intensity would probably be boring.
Maybe I'll go with full sessions and then, if I feel I can't manage it, halve them.

As for my MHR, I was thinking of going full power for 10/15 mins and finding the max heart rate. Would this be a good proxy? Thanks

[Dom82]

It depends on your mental aptitude, personally I would go for it, I would ignore HR as this is a lagging indicator better suited to 30min+ and I believe that different people react differently so better used to compare sessions than to set a limit. That said, if you think you could manage 2:30 at a stretch, don't go faster than 2:40 for the first 2k. Keep rating slow (probably 16-18 initially) and concentrate on the quality of each aspect of your stroke in turn. Most people initially find that several "sharpenings" of the stroke each produce a few S/500m difference so you can make sure that you don't get sloppy by keeping the pace constant at constant SPM.

Best of luck

Iain

Welcome!

My benchmark for starting the BPP is the ability to comfortably row 5000m in one sitting without breaks. If you can do this at a rate of 18-24spm, you can begin the plan. My best advice is to focus on technique and avoid the temptation to go too hard on the early interval pieces. This can lead to injury and set overly challenging pace goals as the plan progresses.

Most important is to post here to keep yourself accountable if that motivates you.

That's good advice, thanks to both of you!

[iain]

If you can go full power for 10-15 mins, 5k at a moderate pace should be relatively easy! Up to you whether you want a more accurate Max HR, but I would say that as rowing by HR is not part of Pete's plans, I would just see what doing the sessions produces. If you row at a consistent pace that is above your threshold, most people find that there is an inflection in the HR plot at threshold. Pete believes "slower" sessions should be UT1 not UT2, so keeping HR below this for the majority of the row should be fine if you do want HR guidance. An all out HR test is really tough and may lead to sloppy rowing that is best avoided until you have a consistent stable stroke.

Hope it goes well.

- IAin

[Dom82]

If you can go full power for 10-15 mins, 5k at a moderate pace should be relatively easy! Up to you whether you want a more accurate Max HR, but I would say that as rowing by HR is not part of Pete's plans, I would just see what doing the sessions produces. If you row at a consistent pace that is above your threshold, most people find that there is an inflection in the HR plot at threshold. Pete believes "slower" sessions should be UT1 not UT2, so keeping HR below this for the majority of the row should be fine if you do want HR guidance. An all out HR test is really tough and may lead to sloppy rowing that is best avoided until you have a consistent stable stroke.

Hope it goes well.

- IAin

Ok, at least for the first few endurance sessions I'll try to focus on technique, keep pace and strokes as constant as possible and forget about HR.

What about interval sessions? I guess I should try to go quite fast, but at a pace I can manage to keep constant throughtout the session (for me, easier said than done, as you can see from the chart I posted yesterday, where peak pace decreases throughout the session). Are there any rules of thumb to pace the interval session based on the 5k results or my peak pace (currently 1:58 / 2:00)?
As mitchel674 said, I'd keep on the "slow" side (2:20 maybe?)

[mitchel674]

If you can go full power for 10-15 mins, 5k at a moderate pace should be relatively easy! Up to you whether you want a more accurate Max HR, but I would say that as rowing by HR is not part of Pete's plans, I would just see what doing the sessions produces. If you row at a consistent pace that is above your threshold, most people find that there is an inflection in the HR plot at threshold. Pete believes "slower" sessions should be UT1 not UT2, so keeping HR below this for the majority of the row should be fine if you do want HR guidance. An all out HR test is really tough and may lead to sloppy rowing that is best avoided until you have a consistent stable stroke.

Hope it goes well.

- IAin

Ok, at least for the first few endurance sessions I'll try to focus on technique, keep pace and strokes as constant as possible and forget about HR.

What about interval sessions? I guess I should try to go quite fast, but at a pace I can manage to keep constant throughtout the session (for me, easier said than done, as you can see from the chart I posted yesterday, where peak pace decreases throughout the session). Are there any rules of thumb to pace the interval session based on the 5k results or my peak pace (currently 1:58 / 2:00)?
As mitchel674 said, I'd keep on the "slow" side (2:20 maybe?)

The key with the interval sessions is to go at a pace that enables you to complete the entire session. Don't start at an unsustainable pace only to handle down before the finish. Also, remember that future rows use your previous pace as a guide.

[iain]

What about interval sessions? I guess I should try to go quite fast, but at a pace I can manage to keep constant throughtout the session (for me, easier said than done, as you can see from the chart I posted yesterday, where peak pace decreases throughout the session). Are there any rules of thumb to pace the interval session based on the 5k results or my peak pace (currently 1:58 / 2:00)?
As mitchel674 said, I'd keep on the "slow" side (2:20 maybe?)

The beauty of Pete's Plans is that they are self adjusting. His guidance is generally for interval sessions to start at a pace you believe that you could complete the total distance at without any breaks. If at all possible you are looking not to significantly slow down so start conservatively, then go faster later on if you can. I believe BPP gives more precise pacing. But what you can achieve is difficult to know until you try. Most of us find after a while that our ability to endure pain increases fairly quickly when we restart rowing. After technique benefits these will be the quickest improvements that you will see. You might also take an extra days rest or 5k extending the first few weeks if you find that you are not ready when your next session comes around. Starting back in December, I was initially only doing 2 days per week of 6-7k but now I am doing most sessions over an hour and 4-5 a week. my initial "long interval" target was to get through it without slowing down and averaged 19SPM, now I am only up to 23SPM, but the strokes are stronger and I am still getting faster and hope to continue the significant improvement for many weeks yet.

[Dom82]

Here I am after the first session:

My initial target was a 2:40 pace at 18 SPM. I've soon realized that the two targets together would feel strange: at 18 SPM going that slow looked like I almost didn't have to push at all. So I decided to slow the stroke rate at 16 and go a bit faster (around 2:35): fewer strokes but a little more powerful. The session was quite relaxing: I ended up a bit sweaty but not really tired. I probably could have targeted 2:25 quite easily, but the plan intensity is going to increase steepily in the next few weeks so I don't mind starting slow.

What I find interesting is that, if the calories estimated by PM5 are correct (I know: that's a big if), I burned more calories today than with the workout schedule I did until today, after which I felt wiped out. Also I don't feel particularly hungry.

Thanks for the advice on the next 6 x 500m session. I think I'm going to start with a pace of 2:20 at maybe 18 SPM. In the last interval, only if I feel I can manage it, I might push a little bit harder.

[mitchel674]

Here I am after the first session:

My initial target was a 2:40 pace at 18 SPM. I've soon realized that the two targets together would feel strange: at 18 SPM going that slow looked like I almost didn't have to push at all. So I decided to slow the stroke rate at 16 and go a bit faster (around 2:35): fewer strokes but a little more powerful. The session was quite relaxing: I ended up a bit sweaty but not really tired. I probably could have targeted 2:25 quite easily, but the plan intensity is going to increase steepily in the next few weeks so I don't mind starting slow.

What I find interesting is that, if the calories estimated by PM5 are correct (I know: that's a big if), I burned more calories today than with the workout schedule I did until today, after which I felt wiped out. Also I don't feel particularly hungry.

Thanks for the advice on the next 6 x 500m session. I think I'm going to start with a pace of 2:20 at maybe 18 SPM. In the last interval, only if I feel I can manage it, I might push a little bit harder.

Nice first session. Most find 16spm a bit slow for steady state work. If you like that rate that's fine, but 18-24 is typically the norm.

Don't be afraid to rate up a bit on your interval pieces. Certainly the 500m intervals would be done at higher rating if you are comfortable. Try getting up 26-30spm for some free speed as you tap it along and keep the flywheel spinning.

[RayOfSunshine]

Here I am after the first session:

My initial target was a 2:40 pace at 18 SPM. I've soon realized that the two targets together would feel strange: at 18 SPM going that slow looked like I almost didn't have to push at all. So I decided to slow the stroke rate at 16 and go a bit faster (around 2:35): fewer strokes but a little more powerful. The session was quite relaxing: I ended up a bit sweaty but not really tired. I probably could have targeted 2:25 quite easily, but the plan intensity is going to increase steepily in the next few weeks so I don't mind starting slow.

What I find interesting is that, if the calories estimated by PM5 are correct (I know: that's a big if), I burned more calories today than with the workout schedule I did until today, after which I felt wiped out. Also I don't feel particularly hungry.

Thanks for the advice on the next 6 x 500m session. I think I'm going to start with a pace of 2:20 at maybe 18 SPM. In the last interval, only if I feel I can manage it, I might push a little bit harder.

Nice first session. Most find 16spm a bit slow for steady state work. If you like that rate that's fine, but 18-24 is typically the norm.

Don't be afraid to rate up a bit on your interval pieces. Certainly the 500m intervals would be done at higher rating if you are comfortable. Try getting up 26-30spm for some free speed as you tap it along and keep the flywheel spinning.

Agree on both points. Perhaps ladder your stroke rate... start the 1st interval at 20spm, then 22spm, 24, 26, 28, 30. The speed will come naturally, so you won't have to push it. The key is keeping good form as you progress up the ladder.

[Dom82]

Ok, for the next 5k I'll target 2.25 /2.30 pace, so at the speed a 18 stroke rate should feel more natural.

For the intervals session, if I understand correctly, you both are suggesting I should increase both stroke rate and speed as I go through the session? I'm not sure that at the moment I can get to high SPMs and keep good technique. What I think I can do is starting at 18 and getting up to 24, maybe 26

[RayOfSunshine]

Ok, for the next 5k I'll target 2.25 /2.30 pace, so at the speed a 18 stroke rate should feel more natural.

For the intervals session, if I understand correctly, you both are suggesting I should increase both stroke rate and speed as I go through the session? I'm not sure that at the moment I can get to high SPMs and keep good technique. What I think I can do is starting at 18 and getting up to 24, maybe 26

Start at 18 is fine. You don't need to worry about the speed. If you keep all else the same, the speed will be there (but don't force yourself to stay at the slower speed). You'll start to feel the connection between SPM and pace. You could even go 18-19-20 and stay there. The point is to gradually get yourself up to higher SPM.

[mitchel674]

Ok, for the next 5k I'll target 2.25 /2.30 pace, so at the speed a 18 stroke rate should feel more natural.

For the intervals session, if I understand correctly, you both are suggesting I should increase both stroke rate and speed as I go through the session? I'm not sure that at the moment I can get to high SPMs and keep good technique. What I think I can do is starting at 18 and getting up to 24, maybe 26

I'm a slow rower. 20-24spm is my sweet spot. But you can't stay there for short intervals or most shorter distance time trials. You will need to learn to gradually rate up while maintaining good technique. I'm now solid up to 30spm after a few years. Above that I tend to have form issues and risk injury. Don't rush this. Focus on your technique at lower ratings. Increase your rating as you feel comfortable.