First Impressions On The Slides

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 13th, 2006, 4:43 pm

Taking the experiment seriously and doing it right, is more likely to yield results that are meaningful.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » January 13th, 2006, 4:48 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Jan 13 2006, 12:31 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Paul,<br /><br />Off slides, you are covering 25.8 * 10.8 = 278.64m/min <br />On the slides you are doing 27.6 * 9.94 = 274.34m/min<br />So there is a difference of 4.3m/min, which means an extra 0.43 spm (4.3/9.94) would be needed on top of the 1.8 spm. So in your case, to go at the a pace of 1:47.7, your stroke rate is 2.2 spm higher on the slides.<br /><br />Does that make sense ?<br /><br />P.S. I am amazed at the wealth of information and the nice graphics you can generate with the ergMonitor <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well, these were for "percieved" equal efforts, which are apprently not very equal in reality.<br /><br />If I were to go at the exact same pace and rate, the differences would virtually disappear in the profiles.<br /><br />Perhaps it would be a bit more illustrative if I showed two nearly identical profiles, but at vastly different rates, with the assoiciated differences in pace. This can be quite stark, i.e. what I do at 1:52 R27 (8k type of row) was virtually identical to one of my 2x partners at 1:29 R44 (all out 500m). When we both executed that profile together at a R32 our boat was flying (1:31-1:30). The problem was that it was too hard for my partner to maintain for a full race, and though I could increase the amplitude of the profile, it did not make the boat go faster. Matching profiles were far more effective at moving the boat. It was a very strange experience, litterally feeling "easier" while going faster according to the speed caoch. I'm sure that I would not have been able to do it by feel alone, it was difficult enough to "ease up" when seeing the result right in front of my eyes.<br />

[old] FrancoisA · Post by **[old] FrancoisA** » January 13th, 2006, 4:53 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 13 2006, 07:59 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>PaulS,<br /><br />Stop being such a jerk, and get your head out of YOUR ass.<br /><br />As I stated above -- look up ^ -- I don't want to waste my effort with a ranking distance on the slides, because they are so much faster than the erg.<br /><br />Try working on your reading comprehension. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John, could you keep this discussion more civilized PLEASE!<br /><br />It would also be appreciated if you could quantify how much faster you are on the slides. No need for ranking.<br /><br />Thanks

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 13th, 2006, 5:01 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Jan 13 2006, 12:53 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>It would be appreciated if you could quantify how much faster you are on the slides. </td></tr></table><br /><br />The results so far are showing 1.5 to 3 seconds per 500 meters faster on the slides.<br />

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » January 13th, 2006, 5:02 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 13 2006, 12:43 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 13 2006, 12:35 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>because a bit more than 2 years ago, a pair of very hard Erg Time Trials (500m and 2500M) lead to a lot of time away from being able to get on the water </td></tr></table><br /><br />How much time did it take you to recover. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />A bit more than 2 months. I've not had any problems since, and plan on keeping it that way. The real issue is that I knew better at the time, but didn't listen to myself, which was "double dumb". At least I kept a video record to remind myself to never do that again, which is working out very well. I watch it when needed, remember the pain and thoughts of repeating the exercise go right away.<br /><br />Perhaps you are still trying to prove something on the Erg, I've no need to do that anymore. I'll stick to proving some things regarding the effective moving of boats.<br /><br />Good luck.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 13th, 2006, 5:08 pm

So far, I'm getting a bigger difference the longer the distance.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 13th, 2006, 5:15 pm

I'm getting more ideas for experiments and am planning to keep doing them in slightly different variations.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » January 13th, 2006, 5:17 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 13 2006, 01:08 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 13 2006, 12:35 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>because a bit more than 2 years ago, a pair of very hard Erg Time Trials (500m and 2500M) lead to a lot of time away from being able to get on the water </td></tr></table><br /><br />Are you saying you still haven't recovered from it yet. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />No, that doesn't look like what I said at all. I'm sure it was typed in English. And you talk about my reading comprehension? Strange.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 13th, 2006, 5:19 pm

For example, I'm not planning any time trials on the slides, but will like to do a few controlled pace runs on them and fast finishes.<br /><br />This way I'll be able to get in some faster steady efforts, but no worries of getting times that would be faster than the erg.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » January 13th, 2006, 5:26 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 13 2006, 01:15 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I see... it was dumb for you to do a time trial. <br /><br />I hope you're not planning to do any time trials or races on the water then. <br /><br />Is this your coaching advice? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I doubt you see anything, since you have a unique way of misunderstanding everything to fit your warped agenda, but I will attempt to explain in a few easy words.<br /><br />It was dumb to push the envelope for something as silly as an Erg Time trial.<br /><br />I have no idea why you would hope such things, but there is plenty of racing and time trials on the water that will be done. The oar shafts will break before I'm in any danger of damaging myself in a way that is possible on the Erg. Very different situations.<br /><br />My advice at the time was, "It's probably not a good idea to push the limit, you're not exactly 20 years old anymore and you remember what happened then."<br /><br />Live and learn.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 13th, 2006, 5:28 pm

If you're going to compare the slides and the erg, then you want to make sure you are putting the same effort and energy into each of them.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » January 13th, 2006, 5:29 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 13 2006, 01:19 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 13 2006, 01:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I kept a video record to remind myself to never do that again </td></tr></table><br /><br />Looks like you still haven't recovered from it yet. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sorry, is repeating yourself in a meaninless way a Life Coaching strategy? Or did you forget to take your ginko biloba and don't realize that you have said that before.

[old] FrancoisA · Post by **[old] FrancoisA** » January 13th, 2006, 5:33 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 13 2006, 08:35 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>No, because a bit more than 2 years ago, a pair of very hard Erg Time Trials (500m and 2500M) lead to a lot of time away from being able to get on the water and I don't want to cause that again. If I knew at what threshold the problem was caused it would be a different matter, but it was more of a surprise in the days following, so it's mostly a risk management strategy at this point. Plus, my Erging performance is incidental, it's the assistance I can provide to others to improve their performance that is far more rewarding. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Paul, in one of your post, if I remember right, you mentioned that one is far more likely to hurt oneself on an erg than rowing on water. Why is it the case?<br /><br />Thanks

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » January 13th, 2006, 5:41 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 13 2006, 01:28 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Is that why you're afraid to use the same handle speed on the slides, as you do on the erg. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />What are you talking about? The handle speed is the same on the Slides or Grounded Erg if the Pace, rate, and DF are the same.<br /><br />Why are you afraid to show up at an IRC? Perhaps it's related to your fear of actually having to go by the time on the monitor and not some mathmatically massaged figure that makes you feel better about yourself.<br /><br />Face your fears John, you'll find that the demon you imagine is not really there.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 13th, 2006, 5:52 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Jan 13 2006, 01:33 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>one is far more likely to hurt oneself on an erg than rowing on water. Why is it the case? </td></tr></table><br /><br />The boat is dynamic, and the erg is stationary, i.e. you are pushing a bigger weight back and forth on the erg than you are in a boat.

Concept2 Forum

First Impressions On The Slides

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training