Heartrate Issues

[nick rockliff]

You are only guessing if you don't know the HR that corresponds with LT1 (2mmol)

Sure, without measurement all is guesswork. For me, as a hobby athlete this is good enough

It also depends on how you are pacing UT2 work. You should be using a HR cap, if you like to use a constant pace/rate and end the session on the cap you will have a constant steady rise in the HR throughout the session but will have been under the cap. If you choose to keep slowing pace to keep under the cap HR would be more level.

What Tsnor mentioned.
Constant pace could probably lead to overshoot the cap, if you don't know exactly what you are capable of. So approach of pace adaption during row seems to be more flexible.

If you row at constant pace/rate and HR stays level, I would assume you are in UT3 and may aswell go for a walk in the park.

Don't know if this is right for all people.
I find sessions where I had a stable HR for 10k, but also others at similar pace where HR steadily rises. This often also correlates to RPE. And surely not using paces like walk in the park. Typically I work at paces from 2:01-2:04, which are not "easy" for me (compared to walk in the park).

Will leave at that then, training methods are personal I suppose and what works for one may be totally wrong for another

[Dangerscouse]

Probably this is related to the ratio of fast and slow twitch fiber. I lack explosiveness, so I assume I have much more of slow twitch fibers. So lactate is less building up from fast twitch, but way better absorbed from slow twitch, which results in less increased levels in the blood. I can handle lower loads for long times, but only 5% load increase and I break down.

I definitely have very few fast twitch muscles, so I agree with you on this, and agree with Nick's last comment too

[Sakly]

Will leave at that then, training methods are personal I suppose and what works for one may be totally wrong for another

Definitely agree.

I definitely have very few fast twitch muscles, so I agree with you on this

I got the feeling that we are similar in terms of long distance - short distance performance already few month ago

[JulianMoreno]

How did you determine your SS to be 2:08? If your hr is at 160 or better, then safe to say your SS is too high. I’m envious of your 2k time, but I’d back that SS pace off until you can hold your hr at 70% of max or less. Won’t feel much like work, but that’s the idea. Good luck.

Gotcha. It is just that I feel like my ss should be 2k+20-22 sec, since that is the general rule/calculation (I believe) when you do not have access to HR data.

[JulianMoreno]

Hi,
As we don't know your max heart rate, we cannot say if 160 is too high for steady state. There are some individuals which get quite high HR at workouts.
For me steady state is not only about heart rate. I work steady states in a range from 2:00 to 2:04/2:05, depending on feeling of the day, RPE and heart rate. That can lead to work at 80%, but also at 70%. As long as recovery is feeling good, I see no problem working at higher heart rate levels than 70%.

How much steady work do you do? It takes long time for the body to adapt.
What about your 5k/10k times?

Ok, I have not tested 5k/10k. For a 30 min session, I can hit around 8100m, and for a 60 min session, maybe 15100-15200 (so splits of 1:51.1 and around 1:58 respectively). my stamina starts to diminish after 30, due to a lack of aerobic fitness. I am 18 yrs, and based on my hr data, I would guess my max is between 200-210.

[Sakly]

It is just that I feel like my ss should be 2k+20-22 sec, since that is the general rule/calculation (I believe) when you do not have access to HR data.

But this rule is also guesswork. Could also be 2k+27 or 2k+17.
My 2k time is very near to yours, on a good day I should probably get it, even if my last one was 6:45.
If i compare your given data for 30/60min with mine, this is a complete other story. My last 60min session on r22 was 15630m and not even AT. You see that generic rules will not work to find training bands or intensities, as everyone reacts and works different.

As long as you don't have info about your max HR, you cannot think about rough training zones (rough, because no lactate measurement. But even with lactate measured, there are several models to interpret this...).
Best way is to get a serious amount of meters in at a slow pace besides your hard sessions. If this means to go at 2:08 - why not? A year ago I worked with 2:10-2:12 splits in my steady sessions. Now I work with ~2:02 at the same HR.

[nick rockliff]

How did you determine your SS to be 2:08? If your hr is at 160 or better, then safe to say your SS is too high. I’m envious of your 2k time, but I’d back that SS pace off until you can hold your hr at 70% of max or less. Won’t feel much like work, but that’s the idea. Good luck.

Gotcha. It is just that I feel like my ss should be 2k+20-22 sec, since that is the general rule/calculation (I believe) when you do not have access to HR data.

There is nothing to say that you need to use HR as a guide to setting your training pace/rates.

At 18 years old just go with how each session feels. When I first started I went from 6.59 to 6.28 for 2k in 10 months on three 1 hour sessions a week just working hard each session. I was 46 then.

When I started using HR my UT2 was 2K + 18.

[iain]

I have read articles that define the top of UT2 as where you can maintain the pace >1hr without significant HR drift. Not sure whether this is generally accepted. Dehydration definitely causes HR drift and I start to sweat at very slow paces (even for me), so this would mean "stroll in the park" pace required for me. That said, I struggle with rowing by "feel", I have a very high pain threshold and as a rule the RPE at a given pace drops as endorphins kick in. This leaves me with the only reliable indicator being where I transition to 2 breaths per stroke, what do others find?

- Iain

[Kerry1960]

I don't normally have the H/R turned on as I find this distracting on the PM5.

However HR was on today when I did a 4k PB. I wasn't "all in" on this one but not far off and my HR never got above 130 for most of the row even though I was trying hard. Not sure what this means. Am I aerobicly fit or just not trying hard enough?

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
17:28.7 4,000m 2:11.0 155 834 27 127
4:24.5 1,000m 2:12.2 151 820 27 130
4:22.8 1,000m 2:11.4 154 830 27 122
4:20.3 1,000m 2:10.1 159 846 27 125
4:21.1 1,000m 2:10.5 157 841 27 133

[MPx]

Am I aerobicly fit or just not trying hard enough?

No one can know that. If you don't know your max you don't know how close 130 is to max. For me 130 is UT2...but if your max is 140 then that was a properly hard session. There's nothing great about being able to get to a high MHR (or low MHR) it just is what it is. Having a low Resting HR is something more of an indicator because you can change that through training.

[Sakly]

It could also be that your muscular level is not able to push more, to create more force. So your cv system is working well and has more capabilities, but your muscles are too weak.

[jamesg]

Am I aerobicly fit or just not trying hard enough?

155W at 27 (Work = 155/27 = 5.7) and 89kg (1.7 W/kg) at age 62 says you're working hard enough to get and stay fit, but at too high a rating, which is a technique problem. Rate range 20 to 23 with a good stroke is enough for aerobic work.

You may find it best to use low drag, 100, since this can allow better timing and rhythm. The catch can be fast with the legs, so that the pull time is about 0.6s, speed 2m/s (Ergdata), leaving plenty of time for recovery.

See: https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

For example a stroke length 1.2m (60% height) pulled at 450N (45kg, 50% weight), as seen in Ergdata, would be Work 540Nm and Power at rating 23: 540 x 23 / 60 = 207W, Pace 2:00.

[Kerry1960]

Thanks. I'll experiment with lower drag this week.. I currently row 2k and above at roughly 130 DF.

[p_b82]

However HR was on today when I did a 4k PB. I wasn't "all in" on this one but not far off and my HR never got above 130 for most of the row even though I was trying hard. Not sure what this means. Am I aerobicly fit or just not trying hard enough?

155W at 27 (Work = 155/27 = 5.7) and 89kg (1.7 W/kg) at age 62 says you're working hard enough to get and stay fit, but at too high a rating, which is a technique problem. Rate range 20 to 23 with a good stroke is enough for aerobic work.

While the numbers might say that there are efficiencies to be gained - eg use more force for each stroke - I would not say that your rating is too high, as your HR has stayed so stable; from a CV load perspective.

If you were OTW jamesg would be right, but on the erg, if it works for you then keep at it; and setting a pb at nearly all out but not quite is great however you shake it - there's more in your tank and you know it, and you'd be doing that sort of effort above 20-23 spm anyway....

[iain]

Some people have reported that wrist based HR monitors don't record accurately, so it is possible that the HR is under reported, but whenever I have had a problem (usually due to low charge) then the result is more erratic than yours shows. That said, as the PM only shows the HR at the end of an interval and there are only 4, it could be coincidence that an erratic reading could have produced.

The fact that you have rated this not all out makes it harder to know what more was in the tank. Personally I find that it gets easier at the end of any piece (in one 5k race where I set out too fast, I still managed the last 300 at 10S/500m faster than I had sunk to at my slowest). If this is the same for you and you weren't holding back at the end, the fact that your last 1k was slightly slower average than the one before suggests you were close to maximum!