First Impressions On The Slides

[[old] John Rupp]

The slides are level, however the front slide is 5/8 of an inch lower than the back one.<br /><br />That could indeed be a factor and probably is.<br /><br />However, adjustment of the length of the first recovery strokes has solved the issue anyway.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Nov 4 2005, 08:47 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 4 2005, 08:47 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The slides are level, however the front slide is 5/8 of an inch lower than the back one.<br /><br />That could indeed be a factor and probably is.<br /><br />However, adjustment of the length of the first recovery strokes has solved the issue anyway. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes, since you are increasing the slope of the seat railing, you will have to work just a little bit harder. Not really a horrible thing as when you are back to the standard slope you will gain a bit from that overload training. If you want to correct it while on slides you could cut a piece of 5/8" thick wood to fit in the Slide carriage track and lift the flywheel end of the Erg. Make sure to secure that Erg Foot with a zip tie or some tape since now it would not have the metal lips holding it. Though you could make the riser to have similar retaining edges so that the temporary setup is easier.<br /><br />Do you mean "the first strokes recovery"? I'm not familiar with "first recovery strokes", unless you are talking about active recovery rest periods, but that would be strange in this context.<br /><br />Important thing to focus on when using slides is that the seat stays relatively stationary WRT the ground, i.e. You move around your own center, letting the system revolve around you. (Wow, sounds like something that Californians would get into rather naturally.)

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Nov 4 2005, 09:06 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Nov 4 2005, 09:06 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you could cut a piece of 5/8" thick wood to fit in the Slide carriage track and lift the flywheel end of the Erg. </td></tr></table><br />Good idea. Another is to reverse tape the wood under the feet of the slides. I will see about doing that one of these days.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you mean "the first strokes recovery"? </td></tr></table><br />The first few recovery strokes, i.e. the recovery from the first stroke going up 1/4 of the way from the back, recovery from the second stroke going up 1/2 way from the back, recovery from the 3rd stroke going up 3/4 of the way from the back and then full strokes from then on.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Important thing to focus on when using slides is that the seat stays relatively stationary WRT the ground, i.e. You move around your own center, letting the system revolve around you. (Wow, sounds like something that Californians would get into rather naturally.)  [right] </td></tr></table><br />Yes that is nice and, yes, I do like that idea. <br />

[[old] John Rupp]

I did a session 3 days ago on the erg, then two easy days, and repeated the session today on the slides. The session consisted of 1 hour rowing to warm up, then 30 minutes of repetitions. My average pace for the repetitions Sunday was 1:53.8. These consisted of 4 sets of 5 reps, except having to go easy on the 5th one of the 1st set. Thus they were relatively hard but I managed to get though them from then on. The last rep of the last set was 1:51.7 pace.<br /><br />It's been awhile since I have rowed on the slides but, based on last time, I expected to be able to go a bit faster on them than the erg. My average turned out to be 1:51.7, with the last rep at 1:48.3 pace. This is 2.1 and 3.4s faster than 3 days ago on the erg.<br /><br />This was very nice to row on the slides again.<br /><br />I get a fuller range of motion and very nice full push with my legs on the slides, and at a higher drag factor than the erg. Thus I feel the slides are excellent for training. During the warm up, I retied a strip of rubber around the fan cage with a rope, which helped to keep a gentle breeze flowing through the session, and I didn't heat up as much as the last time.<br /><br />Once during the start of the 16th rep I banged the slides hard on recovery. This was the only time and woke me up to being more aware of what I was doing. Part of this might have been the still existing 5/8 of an inch slope to the front. However, I made sure to keep my trunk in position along with bringing my legs back, and it didn't happen again. The only time this has happened to me has been in the first 3 or 4 strokes from a start.

[[old] FrankJ]

John,<br /><br />Have you done any longer pieces on the slides? I know Paul Flack says he gains a second per 500 in pace using the slides for longer rows such as half marathon and marathon. So far my 500 meter on slide time is the only one I haven't been able to beat off of slides. From 5K up I am definitely faster off of slides although it is very close up to about 10K. <br /><br />Frank

[[old] PaulS]

John,<br /><br />4 sets of 5 reps in 30 minutes, but what were the "reps"? 45 sec with equal rest? Or was there some rest between sets also? 30 sec reps?<br /><br />It would help to quantify things a bit more specifically.<br /><br />You are also experienceing something quite unusual if you are getting more compression on slides, that virtually never happens in the scientific studies. Perhaps you can describe how you go about doing that.

[[old] John Rupp]

Hi Frank,<br /><br />The 95 minutes today, with 30 minutes of repetitions, is the longest that I've done on the slides. Based on results so far, the gain has been increasing with distance. <br /><br />The first couple of times it seemed to take longer to reach speed on the slides. The 5/8 inch slope to the front could have been a factor, but today I was clicking down under pace by the 3rd or 4th stroke, which compares favorably with the erg. I don't know about being able to match pace for 500 meters, however I am definitely using less effort and not getting as tired on them for a 1k pace on up. The longer the distance, so far, the bigger the difference.<br /><br />I'm not planning to do any ranking pieces on them, and will save those for the erg.<br /><br />If you are keeping the rating the same, that might be one reason your times are the same. You might just be running out of rating. With everything else being equal, except the less resistance on the slides, then the rating needs to be a bit higher to go faster.<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 11 2006, 03:38 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 11 2006, 03:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I get a fuller range of motion and very nice full push with my legs on the slides, and at a higher drag factor than the erg. </td></tr></table><br />I didn't describe this very well so will try it again.<br /><br />My range of motion and movements are much the same as on the erg. However, the lighter weight and less resistance makes it much easier to move "through" my range of motion on the slides. This gives me more speed and makes it feel easier to push a bigger pace more quickly with less effort..<br /><br />For example, the 96 drag factor on the slides, feels like an 80 or so drag factor on the erg. But instead of going the same pace, I'm going 2 or 3 seconds faster.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Jan 11 2006, 05:10 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 11 2006, 05:10 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->John,<br /><br />4 sets of 5 reps in 30 minutes </td></tr></table><br />Paul,<br /><br />It was 30 minutes of reps, i.e. 30 minutes of rowing.<br /><br />Including the rests and breaks, it took me longer than this to complete.<br /><br />Then I did an easy 5:00 warmdown at 2:24 pace.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 11 2006, 05:54 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 11 2006, 05:54 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 11 2006, 03:38 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 11 2006, 03:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I get a fuller range of motion and very nice full push with my legs on the slides, and at a higher drag factor than the erg. </td></tr></table><br />I didn't describe this very well so will try it again.<br /><br />My range of motion and movements are much the same as on the erg. However, the lighter weight and less resistance makes it much easier to move "through" my range of motion on the slides. This gives me more speed and makes it feel easier to push a bigger pace more quickly with less effort..<br /><br />For example, the 96 drag factor on the slides, feels like an 80 or so drag factor on the erg. But instead of going the same pace, I'm going 2 or 3 seconds faster. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />So you are increasing your drag and rate?<br /><br />Okay, so 30 minutes of rowing, but how is it broken up? 4 set of 5 reps of 1:30 rowing with rest periods of how long, between reps, sets?<br /><br />Have you been learning to be vague from Ranger?

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Jan 11 2006, 06:02 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 11 2006, 06:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Have you been learning to be vague from Ranger?  </td></tr></table><br />No, I learned it a long time ago.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Jan 11 2006, 06:02 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 11 2006, 06:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So you are increasing your drag and rate? </td></tr></table><br />The drag is the same. It was 96 three days ago and 95 today.<br /><br />The rating was about the same too, i.e. is following the same 1/2 step progression that I'm using on the erg.

[[old] FrankJ]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 12 2006, 01:47 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 12 2006, 01:47 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />If you are keeping the rating the same, that might be one reason your times are the same.  You might just be running out of rating.  With everything else being equal, except the less resistance on the slides, then the rating needs to be a bit higher to go faster. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi John,<br /><br />Actually I rate quite a bit higher on slides than off. I do most non-slide rowing between 22 and 26 but with slides I am 28 to 32. Slides feel to me like spinning the pedals on a bike in a low gear. Easy to do for a while but the effort of all that spinning finally gets to me. I live in Maine with a lot of hills and still prefer to climb hills on a bike in a big gear and stand on it. <br /><br />Kind of a similar thing rowing. For a while I was improving my 2K times by lowering my SR. I was rowing without slides at 30-32 for my 2K but when I slowed my SR down to 26-28 I actually got faster. <br /><br />So for my rowing style I would say slides are faster for 500 and possibly 1000. From 2K to 6K or 10K they are about equal and beyond 10K they are slower. <br /><br />The challenge for you is to try a 60 minute or half marathon with the slides to see if you can really beat for non-slide time.<br /><br />Frank<br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

Hi Frank,<br /><br />The difference on the slides for me yesterday was only 1/2 a beat with the rating, which the time made up for. Based on the pace, the rating is the same for me on the slides as the erg.<br /><br />Are you sure you are getting the same stroke, drive, and extension on the slides as the erg? My form and timing are about the same either way. The only difference in stroke rate on the slides for me is due to the pace being faster, but that's not 4 beats a minute. A 1/2 beat a minute is 2 full seconds on the pace. <br /><br />For you, say you are going a 1:54 pace at 28 spm, then 32 spm at the same mps would be 1:39.8 pace, which is a 14 second difference on the pace. Your stroke rate should not have that great of a difference, when seeing *no* difference on the pace. Somehow you are using 4 more spm on the slides, and not getting any more power in return, i.e. you are raising the rating and losing intensity. <br /><br />Try keeping your same drive, rhythm, timing and extension as you do on the erg and see how that works. Then raise it up 1/2 a beat higher, while keeping your same stroke, and see if you can keep raising the power along with it.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-FrankJ+Jan 12 2006, 05:05 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrankJ @ Jan 12 2006, 05:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The challenge for you is to try a 60 minute or half marathon with the slides to see if you can really beat your non-slide time. </td></tr></table><br />There's no question at all that I could smash my erg times on the slides.<br /><br />They are fabulous and lots of fun to use.<br /><br />Thanks much for yours and the forum's generosity.