Another newbie

[Sakly]

Thanks for posts. I realise that doing 2k TTs every week isn't ideal long term but, at the moment, breaking 8 mins for 2K by March 31 is my only goal and I need to see consistent progress to know for sure that 'm on track

You should go for as many meters as possible on slow pace to build aerobic capacity. Even if 6 weeks is not much, I am sure you will see progress.
Additionally 2 hard sessions per week, intervals 8x500 2r or 4x1k r3-4.
Doing several 2ks has not much training effect, so it is a waste of time when thinking of the short time.

[Dangerscouse]

Thanks for posts. I realise that doing 2k TTs every week isn't ideal long term but, at the moment, breaking 8 mins for 2K by March 31 is my only goal and I need to see consistent progress to know for sure that 'm on track

Yesterday I did 4x500 at sub 2min pace with 3 mins rest.
Today I might try a 1k at 4 min pace just to see if I can do it followed by a slower 20 min row once I've recovered.

I know it might seem counterintuitive, but it's far better to train around the distance / target than aim directly at it too often. For example, getting better at 4 x 1k is a better option than thrashing out a 2k. There's an abundance of psychological and physiological benefits to this approach as you train further and faster than you'll do in a 2k.

[mitchel674]

Thanks for posts. I realise that doing 2k TTs every week isn't ideal long term but, at the moment, breaking 8 mins for 2K by March 31 is my only goal and I need to see consistent progress to know for sure that 'm on track

Yesterday I did 4x500 at sub 2min pace with 3 mins rest.
Today I might try a 1k at 4 min pace just to see if I can do it followed by a slower 20 min row once I've recovered.

I know it might seem counterintuitive, but it's far better to train around the distance / target than aim directly at it too often. For example, getting better at 4 x 1k is a better option than thrashing out a 2k. There's an abundance of psychological and physiological benefits to this approach as you train further and faster than you'll do in a 2k.

Great wisdom and experience here from Stu.

Don't underestimate the psychological benefits. 2k doesn't seem as long when you routinely sit down and crank out 10k pieces. Sub 2:00 pace doesn't seem as tough when you can row some shorter intervals at 1:48.

Keep at it.

[Kerry1960]

Stu I know you are talking sense about intervals. I was once a good enough 800/1500 runner on the track to be doing interval training. I promise I will give your suggestions a go but 8×500 or 4×1000 seems awfully daunting at the moment. But I did do 4x500 yesterday so maybe I can build up to that.

[Dangerscouse]

Stu I know you are talking sense about intervals. I was once a good enough 800/1500 runner on the track to be doing interval training. I promise I will give your suggestions a go but 8×500 or 4×1000 seems awfully daunting at the moment. But I did do 4x500 yesterday so maybe I can build up to that.

good to hear. It's easy for me to dispense advice, but you've got to wrap your head around it and embrace the fear.

I regularly say this, but I always remember a fellow erger saying a while ago, when he was returning from a bad injury, "this isn't going to be easy. Good, I don't want it to be easy". Repeat that over and over, and you won't go far wrong. Daunting is a good thing, as it makes your achievements far more significant when you get to where you want to get to.

You will build up to those distances, and/or adjust the pace accordingly too. You've been in a similar situation previously, so you're in a great starting point, and muscle memory will be your friend. You just need to manage your inner chimp, and you'll be heading full steam in the right direction.

FWIW, when I decided to row my 12hr session, I was floundering around and not completing anything, and regularly HDing at 8k into a 10k. Less than six months later I rowed just over 153km. Previously I had done about five HMs and once did a slow 26k, but nothing like that within the two years before commiting to it.

[Kerry1960]

Couple of questions.

Is it worth buying a seat pad when rowing on the C2?. I do feel I slide around a bit whilst rowing and anything that give a bit more stability on the seat would be a good thing.

Secondly, I keep hearing that rowing is more push than pull and I get that. I don't feel that I don't get enough leg push into the stroke even though I am trying to do that. Is that because I am not timing it properly, or my legs need strengthening? I do have mild arthritis in both knees
Any tips, drills to help with leg drive?

[Dangerscouse]

Couple of questions.

Is it worth buying a seat pad when rowing on the C2?. I do feel I slide around a bit whilst rowing and anything that give a bit more stability on the seat would be a good thing.

Secondly, I keep hearing that rowing is more push than pull and I get that. I don't feel that I don't get enough leg push into the stroke even though I am trying to do that. Is that because I am not timing it properly, or my legs need strengthening? I do have mild arthritis in both knees
Any tips, drills to help with leg drive?

I think that sliding around on the seat is a technique issue and possibly your choice of shorts. I do eventually move a bit, but it's not notable. Do you row with the handle low enough? Sometimes that's an issue as your centre of gravity is affected if it's too high.

Also have you tried rowing strapless? It takes a bit of getting used to, but it will really help you maintain a more solid core and feel secure on the seat (eventually). Be careful to start with as you'll feel like you're going to fly off the back of the erg.

Leg drive is a mind muscle connection issue. You need to drive with varying leg emphasis. For example, one stroke will be 70% left leg, second stroke is then 70% right leg, and the third stroke is both equal. You'll build a better feeling of the leg drive when you do this, as you have a tendency to pull.

[Kerry1960]

Stu. Thanks for advice.

[p_b82]

Also you might find it helpful to isolate the leg drive part of the stroke. (reverse pick drill)

When you view the force curve on the pm5 - what's the shape look like?

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... orce-curve

If it's shallow from the start (offset to the right) then it would imply that you're not engaging your legs at the drive properly.

I found the curve very helpful when starting to be able to visually see what I was doing through the stroke - at low wattage levels, it won't be as high a peak as in the examples, but it should still be an even curved shape.

[iain]

Stu I know you are talking sense about intervals. I was once a good enough 800/1500 runner on the track to be doing interval training. I promise I will give your suggestions a go but 8×500 or 4×1000 seems awfully daunting at the moment. But I did do 4x500 yesterday so maybe I can build up to that.

I do find this response strange and may be a familiarity thing. 4x1k is a nasty session (although more valuable as a result), but I have always found 8 x 500 with 3' rest a much easier session than a 2k and I don't think I am unusual in this. Yes it is further, but you need to address each interval separately. The pace will be somewhat slower than you can do a 1k so completing 500 in the first few is not that challenging, it just requires you to row at the required pace consistently (as you need to at the start of a 2k). If you are unfamiliar with them, I would start at 2k average pace and try and get as close to that as possible for the first 5. Then see how it is going. If you feel there is more in you then you can go a bit quicker on the 6th, quicker again on the 7th and then go hard on the final one. Personally I would build up to the 4 x 1k. Perhaps doing 1k rest 4', 500 rest 2', 1k rest 4', 500 rest 2' and end with 1k. Start at least 1S slower than your 2k and 2S faster for the 500s. This way you don't have to do consecutive 1ks. I find this session a surprising amount easier than 4 x 1k, but after doing it you will be used to 1k intervals and so should find the 4 x 1k easier.

Just suggestions.

- Iain

[Kerry1960]

Thanks again for suggestions I-m not familiar with the curve on the PM5 and what it shows but I'll certainly look into it.

[Kerry1960]

Think I made a (small) quantum leap with technique yesterday. Concentrated on keeping the chain at the same height throughout and keeping my back straight(er) . My wife took a video of me that showed I was bending my back quite a bit at the catch and lowering the chain height.

Bottom line is I set PBs at 500m and 5k in the same session. Very pleased.

First proper intervals later today which I'm going to do like this. 1k +500m+750m+500m +750m +500. This seems more palatable to me as a newbie than 4×1k or 8×500 but we'll see.

Itching to do a 2k but will hold off for a few more days.

[iain]

... Concentrated on keeping the chain at the same height throughout and keeping my back straight(er) .

Bottom line is I set PBs at 500m and 5k in the same session. Very pleased.

First proper intervals later today which I'm going to do like this. 1k +500m+750m+500m +750m +500. This seems more palatable to me as a newbie than 4×1k or 8×500 but we'll see.

Itching to do a 2k but will hold off for a few more days.

Congratulations on the PBs. losing the front end of the stroke as you raise the chain is significant, so even more congrats on sorting this out. As for a 2k, all of us find technique gets a bit ragged and reverts to faults during hard TTs, so I would urge you to "groove" the new technique for several sessions before stressing it further with a TT. Hope the intervals go well.

[Kerry1960]

I installed the Erg data app yesterday on my phone and used it successfully to set up and run a 5k and save it to my log.. I found this useful to analyse the row afterwads.

Is this the best/only app to do this?

How do you show the results and splits on the forum to accompany your posts as some posters do?

[Sakly]

I installed the Erg data app yesterday on my phone and used it successfully to set up and run a 5k and save it to my log.. I found this useful to analyse the row afterwads.

Is this the best/only app to do this?

How do you show the results and splits on the forum to accompany your posts as some posters do?

Some use ErgZone, others probably apps I don't know. I also use Ergdata and find it useful enough to not switch to our even search for another app (since huge update it is very comfortable to program the PM5).
Showing results is typically done by plain copy of the logbook results from your browser view. This can be done as text or by usage of the "code" BB tags (example of a short warmup):

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M HR
7:16.7 2,013m 1:48.4 274 1243 26 162
5:00.0 1,371m 1:49.4 267 1219 26 159
2:16.7 643m 1:46.2 291 1302 26 165

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	HR 
7:16.7	2,013m	1:48.4	274	1243	26	162
5:00.0	1,371m	1:49.4	267	1219	26	159
2:16.7	643m	1:46.2	291	1302	26	165

I find the latter one gives better readability.