6x500m session as a "2k predictor"

[Sakly]

Maybe it was just a bad day, or maybe it's just me, but I found the 4x1000m+5r way harder than the 8x 500m+3r.

15min rest compared to 21min rest for the same distance.
And the longer pieces typically cannot be rowed at the same pace as the shorter ones.

[HornetMaX]

15min rest compared to 21min rest for the same distance.
And the longer pieces typically cannot be rowed at the same pace as the shorter ones.

Make sense, indeed.
Looks to me the two workouts kind of bound from above (4x1000m) and below (8x500m) my 2K pace.
Good enough Will do them for a while and see.

[Sakly]

15min rest compared to 21min rest for the same distance.
And the longer pieces typically cannot be rowed at the same pace as the shorter ones.

Make sense, indeed.
Looks to me the two workouts kind of bound from above (4x1000m) and below (8x500m) my 2K pace.
Good enough Will do them for a while and see.

For me my last 4x1000m/3:00r was a bit below current 2k PB pace (1:41.2 - 1:41.6), but my 8x500m/2:00r is long ago and had a pace of 1:43.1. The 500 intervals had summed up longer breaks, but were slower, as I did them end of August, the 1k intervals were done on new year, so 4 month later...
I should give the 500s a go again to see were I am

[Tony Cook]

And today I tried a 4x 1000m with 5min rest and well, that was a totally different game.
In the same week I've done:

• My 2K PB, at 1:51.7 avg pace
• The 8x 500m with 3min rest, at 1:49.6 average (faster/slower 500m pace = 1:48.9 / 1:50.5). So 2s better that my 2K PB and I could probably have gone faster.
• The 4x 1000m with 5min rest, at 1:52.8 avg pace (faster/slower 500m pace = 1:49.3 / 1:54.6, ouch). So 1s worse than my 2K PB and it was a real pain (except the 1st 1000m).

Maybe it was just a bad day, or maybe it's just me, but I found the 4x1000m+5r way harder than the 8x 500m+3r.

You’re about there. Be more consistent.
2k Ave pace is 1:52 (rounded up). So try:
8 x 500 each at 1:52 except push the last one faster if you can. 3:08 rest.
4 x 1000 at 1:52, again push the last one quicker. 6:16 rest.
Don’t be too strict on dead on the rest. Set the rest to ‘undefined’ and go within a few seconds of your rest time.
1:49 is too quick at the moment and you paid the price later.
Alternate those doing one or the other once a week. Your last quicker rep will dip your average under 1:52 and use that average for your next session.
If you’re working at the right intensity you will only be knocking one or two tenths of a second off your pace each week.
With your 8x500 average you may improve quicker initially but you need to work on 7/3 reps at exactly the same pace and finish with one quicker - and that shouldn’t be 5 seconds quicker.
And especially remember - you’ve done all of those in one week! There’s no way you’ve had sufficient recovery to do the interval sessions justice.
You’ve got gains in the waiting right there

[HornetMaX]

You’re about there. Be more consistent.
2k Ave pace is 1:52 (rounded up). So try:
8 x 500 each at 1:52 except push the last one faster if you can. 3:08 rest.

That would be very easy to achieve: when I averaged 1:50 (rounded up) on the 8x500m, the last 500m was at 1:50.5.

4 x 1000 at 1:52, again push the last one quicker. 6:16 rest.

1:49 is too quick at the moment and you paid the price later.

Yeah, thought that too. I went for the same pace as the 8x500m but that doesn't really make sense.

Alternate those doing one or the other once a week. Your last quicker rep will dip your average under 1:52 and use that average for your next session.
If you’re working at the right intensity you will only be knocking one or two tenths of a second off your pace each week.
With your 8x500 average you may improve quicker initially but you need to work on 7/3 reps at exactly the same pace and finish with one quicker - and that shouldn’t be 5 seconds quicker.
And especially remember - you’ve done all of those in one week! There’s no way you’ve had sufficient recovery to do the interval sessions justice.
You’ve got gains in the waiting right there

I only do 4 sessions per week (tue/wed/fri/sun). Typically 2 hard ones and 2 long (usually slower/less intense, 1h or 1h30/HM) ones.
But I don't do any other training outside the 4 rowing sessions (except the occasional 30 push-ups and/or 3-4min plank with my son, mostly for fun).
Should I still do only one between the 8x500m and the 4x1000m per week ?

At any rate, thanks a lot for the advice !

[MPx]

And today I tried a 4x 1000m with 5min rest and well, that was a totally different game.
In the same week I've done:

• My 2K PB, at 1:51.7 avg pace
• The 8x 500m with 3min rest, at 1:49.6 average (faster/slower 500m pace = 1:48.9 / 1:50.5). So 2s better that my 2K PB and I could probably have gone faster.
• The 4x 1000m with 5min rest, at 1:52.8 avg pace (faster/slower 500m pace = 1:49.3 / 1:54.6, ouch). So 1s worse than my 2K PB and it was a real pain (except the 1st 1000m).

Maybe it was just a bad day, or maybe it's just me, but I found the 4x1000m+5r way harder than the 8x 500m+3r.

Interesting the RPE was so different between the two...but the numbers themselves were still in line with established "indicators". Keith always says 4x1 5r is +1 for him. You're pretty much on that despite uneven pacing. And the 1ks are much closer to the physical/mental pain of the 2k than the 500s which are mentally much easier.

[Dangerscouse]

I only do 4 sessions per week (tue/wed/fri/sun). Typically 2 hard ones and 2 long (usually slower/less intense, 1h or 1h30/HM) ones.
But I don't do any other training outside the 4 rowing sessions (except the occasional 30 push-ups and/or 3-4min plank with my son, mostly for fun).
Should I still do only one between the 8x500m and the 4x1000m per week ?

At any rate, thanks a lot for the advice !

No reason why you couldn't keep doing this, or there are lots of other options for one of the intervals:

- Grey zone 30 mins, 10k or longer
- 16 x 1 min r1
- 4 x 2k r3
- 3 x 2k (one at r20; one at r24; one at r28)

These are just a few examples, and there are many many more to chose from if you want to.

[HornetMaX]

I only do 4 sessions per week (tue/wed/fri/sun). Typically 2 hard ones and 2 long (usually slower/less intense, 1h or 1h30/HM) ones.
But I don't do any other training outside the 4 rowing sessions (except the occasional 30 push-ups and/or 3-4min plank with my son, mostly for fun).
Should I still do only one between the 8x500m and the 4x1000m per week ?

No reason why you couldn't keep doing this, or there are lots of other options for one of the intervals:

Thx, but the question was more if I should only do one "hard" session per week (given that my overall training volume is erg only and not that much, 4-5 hours in 4 sessions). It seems Tony was saying that ("Alternate those doing one or the other once a week.").

[Sakly]

I only do 4 sessions per week (tue/wed/fri/sun). Typically 2 hard ones and 2 long (usually slower/less intense, 1h or 1h30/HM) ones.
But I don't do any other training outside the 4 rowing sessions (except the occasional 30 push-ups and/or 3-4min plank with my son, mostly for fun).
Should I still do only one between the 8x500m and the 4x1000m per week ?

No reason why you couldn't keep doing this, or there are lots of other options for one of the intervals:

Thx, but the question was more if I should only do one "hard" session per week (given that my overall training volume is erg only and not that much, 4-5 hours in 4 sessions). It seems Tony was saying that ("Alternate those doing one or the other once a week.").

Go for two hard sessions and see how your recovery is. It's different for everyone.

PS: 8x500 today, but both 8x500 and 4x1k are faster than my 2k

[Dangerscouse]

Thx, but the question was more if I should only do one "hard" session per week (given that my overall training volume is erg only and not that much, 4-5 hours in 4 sessions). It seems Tony was saying that ("Alternate those doing one or the other once a week.").

In broad terms, if you want to make progress, you should train as hard and as much as you can recover from. You might bounce back really quickly from a hard session or the opposite, so there's no definitive answer.

[Tony Cook]

You’re about there. Be more consistent.
2k Ave pace is 1:52 (rounded up). So try:
8 x 500 each at 1:52 except push the last one faster if you can. 3:08 rest.

That would be very easy to achieve: when I averaged 1:50 (rounded up) on the 8x500m, the last 500m was at 1:50.5.

4 x 1000 at 1:52, again push the last one quicker. 6:16 rest.

1:49 is too quick at the moment and you paid the price later.

Yeah, thought that too. I went for the same pace as the 8x500m but that doesn't really make sense.

Alternate those doing one or the other once a week. Your last quicker rep will dip your average under 1:52 and use that average for your next session.
If you’re working at the right intensity you will only be knocking one or two tenths of a second off your pace each week.
With your 8x500 average you may improve quicker initially but you need to work on 7/3 reps at exactly the same pace and finish with one quicker - and that shouldn’t be 5 seconds quicker.
And especially remember - you’ve done all of those in one week! There’s no way you’ve had sufficient recovery to do the interval sessions justice.
You’ve got gains in the waiting right there

I only do 4 sessions per week (tue/wed/fri/sun). Typically 2 hard ones and 2 long (usually slower/less intense, 1h or 1h30/HM) ones.
But I don't do any other training outside the 4 rowing sessions (except the occasional 30 push-ups and/or 3-4min plank with my son, mostly for fun).
Should I still do only one between the 8x500m and the 4x1000m per week ?

At any rate, thanks a lot for the advice !

This is the hard, race pace session and should be only done once a week.
Another hard long interval session - 4 x 2k or 5 x 1500 with about 7 min rest and at 2k + 9. Again go quicker for the last 500 of the last one and reset your pace for next time.
This can be a hard distance instead like a 5k/30min/10k TT.
The other two sessions should be SS.
Gives you a good balance on pace, endurance and aerobic.

[HornetMaX]

This is the hard, race pace session and should be only done once a week.
Another hard long interval session - 4 x 2k or 5 x 1500 with about 7 min rest and at 2k + 9. Again go quicker for the last 500 of the last one and reset your pace for next time.
This can be a hard distance instead like a 5k/30min/10k TT.
The other two sessions should be SS.
Gives you a good balance on pace, endurance and aerobic.

Thx a lot. Will stick to that for a while.

[iain]

Each of thee sessions has a different purpose towards increasing your 2k pace. 8 x 500 is about increasing your rating while 4 x 1k is about building the mental toughness to face a 2k. Adding multiple options also gives longer between repeats so that you have improved and can have a good chance of being quicker on the last. When I am not mentally up to a 4 x 1k, I use a 1k r4', 500 r2', 1k, r4', 500 r2', 1k halfway house doing he first 500 2S faster than the 1k trying to be a little fast on the second 500 and "race" the final 1k. I am amazed how much easier it feels but it builds confidence in completing 1k intervals you need to properly commit o a 4 x 1k that in turn allows you to face the 2k at full race pace.

To go back to the question, many people believe that 6 x 500 r1' is a 2k pace predictor, but only works if you restrict yourself to a 2k rating. Also, it might predict your physical ability, but much of a 2k is mental. Even 'though HR only partially recovers in 60S, pushing yourself for 500 is easy, pushing through halfway with much longer distances left when carrying an oxygen deficit is a whole different beast!