Pete Plan Advice/Beginner Training for Young Adults

[rowx3yourboat]

Hey, All,

To preface this, I have read on the Pete Plan on this forum and know there are specific discussions about it; however, the main ones I saw were slightly different advice than for my situation. This is not to say the advice is not already here, and if it is, I would more than appreciate a point in that direction rather than a tailored response. That being said, I am looking for advice on the merits of the Pete Plan for me.

To start, I am a 19 year old male, 6' 1" (~185.5cm) and 220lbs. (~100kg). I picked up erging as a hobby around 2 months and have been training mostly by doing steady state stuff for a half hour to an hour every day. Before that, I had done no working out or cardio in 8 months, and nothing consistently for the past few years. I would self-assess myself as workably athletic. I participated in some athletic activities and could probably run a mile at any given time in 6:30-7:00 minutes, though not without difficulty. The first few weeks of rowing were on and off, so I'd say I started doing it every day about 5 weeks ago. I then did it for 3 weeks before taking 2 weeks of no rowing due to medical orders. This week, I did a baseline, as I had been doing most of the rest of my stuff up to this point on a water rower, and this was my first chance to have access to a C2.

I ended up with a 7:18.5 for my baseline 2k, which, based on my limited training before, I was expecting. I then did the first day of the Pete Plan, the 8x500/3:30minute rest and got times of 1:46, 1:43, 1:45, 1:43, 1:45, 1:45, 1:51, and 1:56. It should be noted that this was intensely challenging for me, and while I probably could have done a bit faster the last 2, I slowed down so I didn't throw up, as I was in a commercial gym. However, I was out of breath for several minutes after this. My goal with this was to hit around 1:45 each time, though I am unsure if this is what you should be aiming for with this workout.

My goals are generally to improve my 2k time. I am not sure what is entirely realistic, but a loose goal would be to hit ~6:30 by September of 2023, as this would be when school starts and would probably give me a decent chance of making the team. Long term, I would like to dip below 6:00, although I understand that the lower you go, the harder it is to take seconds off of your time, and therefore even 6:30 will be extremely difficult.

After all this, should I continue with the Pete Plan given my goals? Some people have said it is for peaking, and therefore should not be sustained for long periods of time. Others have said they have done it for long periods of time and it has worked well. As I am young, I may have that as an advantage in sustaining it, but I am wondering if doing that is the most beneficial to me. If it is not, I would love to know what training plans would be better for my goals and general long-term success. If you believe the Pete Plan to be satisfactory, do you have any advice on it?

Thanks for your time and help! Sorry for the long-windedness; I try to provide as much context as possible so people can understand my situation.

[Dangerscouse]

Welcome to the forum. I'd definitely recommend The Pete Plan to anyone. As an example, Cam (btlifter) has done the PP, and he's a 5:57 2ker.

It is ideal for peaking, but if you can sustain the effort, there's no reason why you shouldn't keep doing it.

[rowx3yourboat]

Thanks! That was my first logical conclusion, but I wasn't sure whether difficulty in sustaining the plan was a matter of lack of strength of mindset and desire or a physical deterioration. Knowing this, I will try a few cycles and see how it goes. Good to know that someone of that level has done it.

[Tsnor]

Welcome to the forum. I'd definitely recommend The Pete Plan to anyone. As an example, Cam (btlifter) has done the PP, and he's a 5:57 2ker.

It is ideal for peaking, but if you can sustain the effort, there's no reason why you shouldn't keep doing it.

Stu, I'm concerned that OP who rowed Pete Plan workouts every day for 3 weeks, rows until he's close to throwing up and stopped rowing for 2 week on medical advice will not understand what you mean by "peaking" and "if you can sustain the effort" and will only hear "green light, hammer it. no pain, no gain, if you work more you'll get stronger".

Could you go over recovery vs work days a bit? Maybe discuss overall training philosophy ?

[Elizabeth]

Hey OP, are you able to provide more details about why you were under medical orders not to row, and if you're cleared now? How hard are your steady state sessions, and was this your first time doing speed work?

[aussie nick]

caveat....I'm not a young adult.

I followed Pete's Plan for 8 months when I started rowing a few years ago and I still base a lot of my training around it's intervals. It's a great structure because

1. it encourages different length rows of different intensities
2. it provides regular comparisons for you to check your progress which I found motivating.

I am sure there are other programs you could try....Pete based his plan on the Wolverine Plan by Mike Caviston, who is still active on this forum, so that's worth checking out too....but a lot of us have used PP and most of us have got good results from it.

I 100% recommend.

[rowx3yourboat]

The reason I had to take 2 weeks off is because I had a cortisone shot in my elbow. I currently have a semi-diagnosed elbow issued that has been there for years, and the cortisone shot was an attempt to reveal more information about the nature of the injury. It does this by relieving pain (hopefully), which would indicate a certain injury, or not as much, which would indicate something else. I had been told to take a week off of physical activity and then ease back into things, so I took and extra week to do some slower and less intense exercises before my 2k trial.

I am not yet entirely sure if the shot helped or not, as there are still moments of soreness, but overall, the elbow has not made a major impact on my erging, even before the shot when I was erging every day. My general thought is that I will continue to row, as it was already the exercise I felt the least in my elbow.

My steady state sessions have been hard, but not nearly as hard as the sprints. I did do a steady state today that was very difficult for me, but normally the intensity is not matching that of the sprints. This is not my first time doing sprints, but as I took a break and haven't been rowing for a long time, I was not entirely sure what to aim for.

As I believe I have mentioned, I really have no way of knowing how to train the Pete Plan. I come from American football as my primary sport, where off days are emphasized but so is working intensely during practice. My coach always told us something along the lines of "you should strive to get practice done in 45 minutes and feel intensely tired rather than waste 2 hours and feel nothing". While there are some exceptions, this was the philosophy on the field and in the gym, and it has been the general approach I have taken to rowing so far; however, I know they are very different sports, so if this is wrong, please let me know.

[jamesg]

My steady state sessions have been hard, but not nearly as hard as the sprints.
I was not entirely sure what to aim for.

As you've noted, rowing is a sport that needs strength, technique and endurance, especially if we want to pull 2ks.

Start with technique and aim for quality: you can only pull one stroke at a time, so better be good. Then you won't have to rush to the next one: it will give you better results and also help protect against injury, by using muscle groups as to their characteristics.

The 7minute 2k is a marker for the erg: 300W rowed at 30 requires a 10 Watt stroke, not difficult to see how to train: 200W at 20.

[aussie nick]

My steady state sessions have been hard, but not nearly as hard as the sprints. I did do a steady state today that was very difficult for me, but normally the intensity is not matching that of the sprints. This is not my first time doing sprints, but as I took a break and haven't been rowing for a long time, I was not entirely sure what to aim for.

As I believe I have mentioned, I really have no way of knowing how to train the Pete Plan. I come from American football as my primary sport, where off days are emphasized but so is working intensely during practice. My coach always told us something along the lines of "you should strive to get practice done in 45 minutes and feel intensely tired rather than waste 2 hours and feel nothing". While there are some exceptions, this was the philosophy on the field and in the gym, and it has been the general approach I have taken to rowing so far; however, I know they are very different sports, so if this is wrong, please let me know.

lots of far more knowledgable people than me on this site but yes, this is wrong as an everyday rowing approach if you're rowing more than 3x per week. You'll burn out and it can be counter productive. (I also came from the intensity approach to training and it's been a learning experience for me too). As a guide to steady state intensity, if you aren't yet using a heart rate monitor and using heart rate zones, then the finger in the air guide is that you should be able to hold a conversation with someone else while you're rowing at steady state pace and intensity. If you couldn't do that without huffing and puffing...you're going too hard.

When you say you have no way to know how to train Pete's Plan...have you actually read it? It's laid out pretty simply in terms of the sessions and the amount of work?

https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/the-pete-plan/

[Dangerscouse]

Stu, I'm concerned that OP who rowed Pete Plan workouts every day for 3 weeks, rows until he's close to throwing up and stopped rowing for 2 week on medical advice will not understand what you mean by "peaking" and "if you can sustain the effort" and will only hear "green light, hammer it. no pain, no gain, if you work more you'll get stronger".

I totally accept the flaws in my comment, and you're very right. Thankfully it looks like the OP has clarified the reasons and they're open to suggestions.

[Elizabeth]

Thanks OP, that's helpful. I had started to type up more specific pacing advice and then remembered the reasons why my friends had been benched by the doc when we were all 19, and it would have been inappropriate advice for many of those situations. Assuming that rowing does not cause any additional elbow pain and isn't preventing recovery -

Like many plans available on the internet, Pete does a great job of outlining specifics, and then there are other sources that summarize it and lose a lot of details. Be sure you're looking at the original. I'm going to call out a few specific things.

Steady state should be at a level of intensity that doesn't interfere with your body's ability to recover and take the hard sessions hard - i.e., relatively easy. The way you're describing your most recent session makes me think you likely need to slow down. If you don't have a heart rate monitor, the conversation test is a good one. It will feel slow and the splits will look slow, maybe 2:15-2:20. That's okay. This is about building your engine.

Pete reluctantly provides pacing advice for the intervals and says that it's just a starting point. Go out at a pace that you know you can hold across all of the intervals. Maybe this is 500s @1:52. Then on the last one, go all out. Maybe this is where you see that 1:43 on the monitor. Get the average off of the monitor (ballpark 1:50.5-1:51 based on those numbers), and use that to pace your next 8x500 session, taking the last one all out again.

[rowx3yourboat]

After looking over all the feedback and looking over the Pete Plan, I believe I have a better idea of how to train. The steady state days should be relatively easy and yet somewhat based on my intervals and improvement, while the intervals should be challenging but not painfully so. Hopefully this allows me to continue the Pete Plan for a longer period of time.

As for the wattage, I will certainly have to look more into that, as I usually don't look at that or have it displayed on my screen, but it seems that I should maintain my stroke power during all aspects of training and vary only stroke rate. Again, this may be wrong, but based on jamesg's comment, this is my conclusion.

Do people typically set rowing time goals? If so, are the goals I initially listed reasonable with proper diet and training? I don't mind shooting for a little higher than reasonably possible, but too high and I believe one may get bogged down by a lack of progress at the expected rate.

[p_b82]

I'm not in the same performance bracket as you are, but in order for me to remain motivated I do set myself some goals.

I prefer to set a target that I can beat, so that I can beat it, and then set myself another one and repeat - it does mean that my progress is slower; but I tend to want to avoid chasing something I can't meet for as long as possible, as that keeps my motivation levels higher.

Some people I know perform better with larger goals as it pushes them harder to achieve them - to each their own!

2K's are not my focus really, but I did my first one not long ago and it was an 8:14.1, next time I attempt it, I'd like to beat 8:00.

But I've currently set my eyes on a 2:25 paced HM; so it'll be a while before I come back to the 2k I reckon; got some other middle distance pb's I'd like to better, which will probably happen on the way to beating the HM.

[Dangerscouse]

As for the wattage, I will certainly have to look more into that, as I usually don't look at that or have it displayed on my screen, but it seems that I should maintain my stroke power during all aspects of training and vary only stroke rate. Again, this may be wrong, but based on jamesg's comment, this is my conclusion.

Do people typically set rowing time goals? If so, are the goals I initially listed reasonable with proper diet and training? I don't mind shooting for a little higher than reasonably possible, but too high, and I believe one may get bogged down by a lack of progress at the expected rate.

Personally, I don't ever row using watts. I just don't have any interest in it, and I can't think of anyone else who does use it. I'm not saying don't use it, but don't be thinking you have to.

I'd suggest you row for as long as you can whilst enjoying it and recovering from it. You'll know fairly soon if you're under-recovered, especially given your previous sporting background

I'll typically row for five hours a week, and it was getting up towards nine hours during Covid lockdown two years ago, and that includes about 20k of walking, an hour of weights and an hour of hot dynamic Pilates every week.

Having said that, I have built up to this 'time in the seat', so don't think you can short-cut the preparation phase. It will need an incremental plan to get you to be comfortable with regularly doing 60 mins+

[Tsnor]

... My steady state sessions have been hard, but not nearly as hard as the sprints. I did do a steady state today that was very difficult for me...

Will you watch a video ? If so try this one. It is about successful approaches to training, and is mainstream thinking for best practices for endurance sports (rowing, running, cycling, nordic skiing, speed skating, etc.) https://www.ted.com/talks/stephen_seile ... e_athletes If you want more detailed information post.

Note steady state can be difficult because it's done too hard (low splits), or it can be difficult because duration was ramped up too fast (correct split for 45 minute row, but you rowed 90 minutes). Either way you need to back off -- you just back off differently.

... I come from American football as my primary sport, where off days are emphasized but so is working intensely during practice. My coach always told us something along the lines of "you should strive to get practice done in 45 minutes and feel intensely tired rather than waste 2 hours and feel nothing".

The best way to condition and peak people's performance in 6 weeks is lots of intensity. Intervals. Max pushes. This does not build aerobic base well long term, but does produce the best short term results. Coaches are given access to their team players for a short period of time (8 to 12 weeks) and rewarded for achievement. Almost all high school coaches will drive towards intensity. For college, Olympic and professional athletes who train year round for years the intensity mix changes a lot. These athletes mainly focus on aerobic base and then add peaking workloads designed to get them to max performance for their sport's season and critical events.

If you are training 2-4 hours/week then keep up your current intensity even on steady state. Over time your performance will plateau with an all intensity workload training plan, but you have the best performance you can get on 2-4 hours/week. If you can spend additional time for long/slow pieces then you can keep your aerobic base growing. ote you don't need to use 100% rowing to build your base -- cycling, running, etc all build aerobic base. Ramping up hours spent rowing too quickly (even at slow pace) can be tough on your back so mixing in other things is good.

For your elbow. When you get close to the finish, and your legs are flat down and your hip swing is almost complete instead of pulling with your arms pull your elbows behind your body and ignore your hands/arms. This is more efficient and is the stroke you want long term. Short term it will move some of the work away from your forearms/wrists/biceps and maybe relieve your elbow a bit. Elbows end up 1/3 way up between touching your side and straight out from your body.

...

Hi Stu. I completely agree with what you said. Only fear was of misinterpretation. What you said was right.